4 ms·

How does the life of a US metallurgist who works part time at a grocery store compare to a Chinese metallurgist who is working 70 hours a week doing metallurgy?

JPLeRouzic 1y ago
I have interacted with Chinese people in IT for a few months, and they worked 5 days per week. I don't know how many hours they made per day. Another interesting stat is that they live longer on average than US people. And until recently, men retired at 60 and women at 55 yo. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpd9v48yn8ro https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpd9v48yn8ro
- quacksilver 1y ago
  From working in China a bit (though could be wrong, n=1 anecdotes etc.), the majority of IT people are probably the lucky ones who mostly had a middle class upbringing, could live in a reasonable city and studied hard at school or had well connected parents. Life growing up with parents who were a rural rice farmer or metal scrapper or something would be way different. It is very hard to get a job after a certain age compared to the west, and there is pressure in some areas for women to quit once they have children. It was common to see people working from 7 or 8 am to 8 or 10pm in my office, though with a 2 hour lunch break where most people slept. On average, people tended to look way healthier (at least superficially) on average compared to places I have been in the US. Maybe due to diet and activity level.
- ppseafield 1y ago
  Look up 996. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58381538 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58381538 https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/11/15/1039650/china-tech-workers-996-fight-back/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/11/15/1039650/china-te...
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- trod1234 1y ago
  It is well known and established that stats favor rhetoric, and by extension lack credibility as fact. If you can't guarantee the expected methodology conformed in collection, bad data in causes bad data out, its worse than no data at all.
  - a123b456c 1y ago
    Occasionally, I wish I commented often enough to get downvote privileges.
    - trod1234 1y ago
      Occasionally, I do to. Are you trying to say that China doesn't fabricate and lie about their metrics and collection methodology? because I hate to be the one to break this to you, it does and there's a lot of news coverage on it going back over a decade. https://www.scmp.com/economy/economic-indicators/article/3243527/chinas-economic-data-again-under-microscope-local-authorities-warned-over-falsifying-statistics https://www.scmp.com/economy/economic-indicators/article/324... https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2023/05/01/why-the-world-is-not-trusting-chinas-nbs-a-political-storyline/ https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2023/05/01/why-the-world-is-... https://dialogo-americas.com/articles/china-withholds-manipulates-falsifies-official-data/ https://dialogo-americas.com/articles/china-withholds-manipu... http://www.uschina.org/articles/chinas-official-statistics/ http://www.uschina.org/articles/chinas-official-statistics/
      - JPLeRouzic 1y ago
        From one of the sources you provide: "reported by the state-run People’s Daily newspaper" This sounds like a case of honesty, not the other way around.
        trod1234 1y ago
        They only started blaming the locals once there was concrete proof internationally where they were caught in the lie, and there is plenty of material all of which support this; not just the ones I linked. Shame is one of the worst things for Chinese culturally. The fact is, this is not in doubt, and it wasn't a one time thing but rather a consistent effort. Do a simple google search, look at the dates of the articles, they go back decades. Its well established at this point that this is what one must expect with them.
- ashoeafoot 1y ago
  That is a side effect of chinese kitchens shunning refrigeration and thus processed food. Even with the polution that makes for a healthier lifestyle .Although the younger generations catch up diabetes wise .
api 1y ago
The latter is getting skills in real-world productive work? One problem with our information-and-services economy is that it enables a giant proportion of the population to live without any understanding of how anything in the physical world operates. You inhabit a universe of magic, using magic made by other people to provide services. Eventually the entire country loses the ability to make anything in the real world.
fooker 1y ago
Good question, the former will have an easier life but still struggle to support a family (and will likely not have a family). The later will have a harder life but people depending on the later will live standard middle income lives. What happens when the part time grocery job is automated away? The answer to that is not very pleasant for consumer economies.

JPLeRouzic 1y ago

I have interacted with Chinese people in IT for a few months, and they worked 5 days per week. I don't know how many hours they made per day. Another interesting stat is that they live longer on average than US people. And until recently, men retired at 60 and women at 55 yo. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpd9v48yn8ro https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpd9v48yn8ro

quacksilver 1y ago
From working in China a bit (though could be wrong, n=1 anecdotes etc.), the majority of IT people are probably the lucky ones who mostly had a middle class upbringing, could live in a reasonable city and studied hard at school or had well connected parents. Life growing up with parents who were a rural rice farmer or metal scrapper or something would be way different. It is very hard to get a job after a certain age compared to the west, and there is pressure in some areas for women to quit once they have children. It was common to see people working from 7 or 8 am to 8 or 10pm in my office, though with a 2 hour lunch break where most people slept. On average, people tended to look way healthier (at least superficially) on average compared to places I have been in the US. Maybe due to diet and activity level.
ppseafield 1y ago
Look up 996. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58381538 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58381538 https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/11/15/1039650/china-tech-workers-996-fight-back/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/11/15/1039650/china-te...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
trod1234 1y ago
It is well known and established that stats favor rhetoric, and by extension lack credibility as fact. If you can't guarantee the expected methodology conformed in collection, bad data in causes bad data out, its worse than no data at all.
- a123b456c 1y ago
  Occasionally, I wish I commented often enough to get downvote privileges.
  - trod1234 1y ago
    Occasionally, I do to. Are you trying to say that China doesn't fabricate and lie about their metrics and collection methodology? because I hate to be the one to break this to you, it does and there's a lot of news coverage on it going back over a decade. https://www.scmp.com/economy/economic-indicators/article/3243527/chinas-economic-data-again-under-microscope-local-authorities-warned-over-falsifying-statistics https://www.scmp.com/economy/economic-indicators/article/324... https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2023/05/01/why-the-world-is-not-trusting-chinas-nbs-a-political-storyline/ https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mje/2023/05/01/why-the-world-is-... https://dialogo-americas.com/articles/china-withholds-manipulates-falsifies-official-data/ https://dialogo-americas.com/articles/china-withholds-manipu... http://www.uschina.org/articles/chinas-official-statistics/ http://www.uschina.org/articles/chinas-official-statistics/
    - JPLeRouzic 1y ago
      From one of the sources you provide: "reported by the state-run People’s Daily newspaper" This sounds like a case of honesty, not the other way around.
      - trod1234 1y ago
        They only started blaming the locals once there was concrete proof internationally where they were caught in the lie, and there is plenty of material all of which support this; not just the ones I linked. Shame is one of the worst things for Chinese culturally. The fact is, this is not in doubt, and it wasn't a one time thing but rather a consistent effort. Do a simple google search, look at the dates of the articles, they go back decades. Its well established at this point that this is what one must expect with them.
ashoeafoot 1y ago
That is a side effect of chinese kitchens shunning refrigeration and thus processed food. Even with the polution that makes for a healthier lifestyle .Although the younger generations catch up diabetes wise .

api 1y ago

The latter is getting skills in real-world productive work? One problem with our information-and-services economy is that it enables a giant proportion of the population to live without any understanding of how anything in the physical world operates. You inhabit a universe of magic, using magic made by other people to provide services. Eventually the entire country loses the ability to make anything in the real world.

fooker 1y ago

Good question, the former will have an easier life but still struggle to support a family (and will likely not have a family). The later will have a harder life but people depending on the later will live standard middle income lives. What happens when the part time grocery job is automated away? The answer to that is not very pleasant for consumer economies.