4 ms·

It's really tiring to see the same handful of arguments on HN every time anything related to Europe or the EU is posted on here. Yes, some things the USA is doi

It's really tiring to see the same handful of arguments on HN every time anything related to Europe or the EU is posted on here. Yes, some things the USA is doing better than Europe, but far from everything and depending on your political leanings (or rather social position) even most.

chermi 1y ago
[flagged]
- newsclues 1y ago
  Seems comparison makes certain regions look good or bad, and that could lead to accountability which would be good or bad depending upon how you benefit or not from the policy. That’s part of the problem with globalists who want a single world government, one government for the world deprives the people of choice.
- miltonlost 1y ago
  How many of the top level comments are just blanket assumptions that this is going to be corrupt without any pointing at specifics of this proposal? The knee-jerk reactions are strong
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    >How many of the top level comments are just blanket assumptions that this is going to be corrupt without any pointing at specifics of this proposal? How many points do you need on the graph till you're convinced they form a line? If some person or some org, has a history of spending money and not delivering anything, what are the odds "this time will be different"? To me, this initiative is just another point on that line.
  - sowhat25 1y ago
    Because it's their experience with how the EU is run. These top level commenters you refer to don't want to waste their time with the specifics is the proposal because they believe that these initiative is a poorly managed redistribution of tax money.
    - miltonlost 1y ago
      True. I sometimes forget this is site is more VC bro than tech bro. All that matters to most on here is how easy it is to make money for themselves.
      - bgnn 1y ago
        I don't think VC system is good, but I'm tired of going in to EU calls to only see there's actually no money for start-ups but it's often earmarked to keep big EU companies afloat and competitive. This is in itself not a bad thing, pretty much everyone does it (US military industrial complex for example). So I accepted these as money injection to big business rather than expecting it to tickle down to small businesses or start-ups. On start-up funding we have a systematic issue of European wealth going to US for investment and EU start-ups going to US to find investment. These EU money injections doesn't solve it imho.
hnthrow90348765 1y ago
The USA doing things better is quickly going to be false
- djohnston 1y ago
  Compared to whom?? The EU??? Lmk when they’re building anything competitive.
  - xethos 1y ago
    Commuter rail, public transit, a social safety net, and I personally would take anything from Volkswagon group over the average Dodge vehicle
    - nickserv 1y ago
      Dodge is owned by Stellantis, a EU company... And Ford makes good cars, when they choose to.
      - xethos 1y ago
        My mistake, I'd forgotten Dodge was owned by Stellantis. That said, multiple American car companies (Dodge, Jeep, Chrystler) going under and ending up owned by an EU conglomorate sure doesn't feel like a stirling defense of GP's claim, I.E., "What the EU builds is not competitive with what America builds"
    - WrongAssumption 1y ago
      Volkswagen of diesel-gate fame? That one?
      - xethos 1y ago
        I mean, Jeep and Dodge (when owned under their American umbrella corp., FCA) were later found to be using similar defeat devices (see "Other manufacturers [0]). Though if you want to smear them, you may as well go all in and point out they were the original Nazi car brand - not even Tesla has that kind of credibility [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
zpeti 1y ago
In this case, it's not hard to make the argument that you can't have one without the other. If you're always going to lean into risk aversion and safety nets, you will lose to the player who is willing to make more risks. This involves the losers losing bigger, but the winners winning bigger. That's what the US is compared to Europe. The winners are better off, but the losers are worse off. Everything is a trade off. But it's highly unlikely you can have best of both worlds in the long run.

chermi 1y ago

[flagged]

newsclues 1y ago
Seems comparison makes certain regions look good or bad, and that could lead to accountability which would be good or bad depending upon how you benefit or not from the policy. That’s part of the problem with globalists who want a single world government, one government for the world deprives the people of choice.
miltonlost 1y ago
How many of the top level comments are just blanket assumptions that this is going to be corrupt without any pointing at specifics of this proposal? The knee-jerk reactions are strong
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  >How many of the top level comments are just blanket assumptions that this is going to be corrupt without any pointing at specifics of this proposal? How many points do you need on the graph till you're convinced they form a line? If some person or some org, has a history of spending money and not delivering anything, what are the odds "this time will be different"? To me, this initiative is just another point on that line.
- sowhat25 1y ago
  Because it's their experience with how the EU is run. These top level commenters you refer to don't want to waste their time with the specifics is the proposal because they believe that these initiative is a poorly managed redistribution of tax money.
  - miltonlost 1y ago
    True. I sometimes forget this is site is more VC bro than tech bro. All that matters to most on here is how easy it is to make money for themselves.
    - bgnn 1y ago
      I don't think VC system is good, but I'm tired of going in to EU calls to only see there's actually no money for start-ups but it's often earmarked to keep big EU companies afloat and competitive. This is in itself not a bad thing, pretty much everyone does it (US military industrial complex for example). So I accepted these as money injection to big business rather than expecting it to tickle down to small businesses or start-ups. On start-up funding we have a systematic issue of European wealth going to US for investment and EU start-ups going to US to find investment. These EU money injections doesn't solve it imho.

hnthrow90348765 1y ago

The USA doing things better is quickly going to be false

djohnston 1y ago
Compared to whom?? The EU??? Lmk when they’re building anything competitive.
- xethos 1y ago
  Commuter rail, public transit, a social safety net, and I personally would take anything from Volkswagon group over the average Dodge vehicle
  - nickserv 1y ago
    Dodge is owned by Stellantis, a EU company... And Ford makes good cars, when they choose to.
    - xethos 1y ago
      My mistake, I'd forgotten Dodge was owned by Stellantis. That said, multiple American car companies (Dodge, Jeep, Chrystler) going under and ending up owned by an EU conglomorate sure doesn't feel like a stirling defense of GP's claim, I.E., "What the EU builds is not competitive with what America builds"
  - WrongAssumption 1y ago
    Volkswagen of diesel-gate fame? That one?
    - xethos 1y ago
      I mean, Jeep and Dodge (when owned under their American umbrella corp., FCA) were later found to be using similar defeat devices (see "Other manufacturers [0]). Though if you want to smear them, you may as well go all in and point out they were the original Nazi car brand - not even Tesla has that kind of credibility [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

zpeti 1y ago

In this case, it's not hard to make the argument that you can't have one without the other. If you're always going to lean into risk aversion and safety nets, you will lose to the player who is willing to make more risks. This involves the losers losing bigger, but the winners winning bigger. That's what the US is compared to Europe. The winners are better off, but the losers are worse off. Everything is a trade off. But it's highly unlikely you can have best of both worlds in the long run.