4 ms·

I've talked with a lot of startups who got in YC in the past several years, and none of them got a call or an interview without having connection inside or usin

by d0m 14y ago

I've talked with a lot of startups who got in YC in the past several years, and none of them got a call or an interview without having connection inside or using some kind of a hack. Still, it's sadden me a little bit. You send the best possible application you can create, you're refused. You contact the YC team, you're refused. You send beer to one of them, oh you get the chance to have an interview. If they liked the idea so much to admit Instacart so late with a single founder, it's hard to believe they're doing a great job at screening the applications. IMO, every (no-spam) applications should at least have a 2 minutes skype call with one of the YC members. I know it takes time but it's in their interest.

arkitaip 14y ago
Maybe keeping at it and deploying the beer hack - a very good marketing tactic, really - what made Y! make up their mind. Anyone that dedicated is bound to at least get stuff done.
- tptacek 14y ago
  "Dedicated enough to send a six pack" is not a very strong signal. Probably don't everyone start sending gifts to yc now.
  - arkitaip 14y ago
    Dedicated as in contacting all Y! partners. Dedicated as in running up against a wall and finding a way around it. And it really wasn't about the beer but generating interest in Instacart.
  - dkrich 14y ago
    I think you're kind of missing the point. He didn't just send a six-pack of beer, but rather he sent a six-pack of beer with his own product. I don't think getting food delivered to their offices is going to help your pitch for a new way to share photos.
tptacek 14y ago
You think the difference between interview and no-interview with a seed fund is "six pack of beer"? That doesn't sound naive to you? My read was, the difference here was between the idea of a business being discussed on the Internet, versus an instance of the actual real-world execution of that idea.
- davidw 14y ago
  Reciprocity isn't something to take that lightly, by all accounts. It's not that a six pack of beer buys your way in; that's absurd, it's that when someone has handed you something, you feel inclined to give something back. Chapter 2 of this book covers it in some detail: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BD2UUC/?tag=dedasys-20 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BD2UUC/?tag=dedasys-20 (no offense, anti-referral link guys). I thought "Thinking Fast, Thinking Slow" did as well, but a cursory search didn't turn anything up. Of course, something that's sort of missing from the story is how this showed Instacart in action: it sort of sounds like some guy driving up and handing them some beer, which in and of itself doesn't demonstrate a lot.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    It's funny, because _Influence_ was the boy's assigned reading this summer. I'm pretty familiar with reciprocity. I don't think it's that easy to trigger it with a YC partner and a six pack of beer. I don't know, maybe it was Russian River. Mostly what I'm fixated on here is the difference between trying to prove your commitment to an idea on the Internet v. proving your commitment to an idea in real life. Lots of people are "Internet-determined". Give them a sequence of keys to punch, and they will do it, no matter how long that key sequence is! I can imagine, if my job was filtering through many hundreds of long key sequences from people on the Internet, that any signal of real-life commitment or execution would stand out.
  - timr 14y ago
    Read a little further in that chapter, and it's made abundantly clear that abuse of reciprocity is worse than doing nothing at all: the Hare Krishnas almost never hand out flowers in the airport anymore, because everyone is on to the game. Not only did airports start to box them in to special areas, but people began to hate them. The same book goes into the importance of the magnitude of the reciprocity request: even the Krishnas, at the height of their success, couldn't ask people for huge donations in exchange for a flower.
S4M 14y ago
It doesn't seem impossible to get a connection with people inside YC. The OP, for example, asked YC alumni for some introduction. Maybe YC's way of selection is just a way to weed out people who would simply send an application and wait, instead of being pro-active.
seagreen 14y ago
By doing this they're selecting for people that have a strong understanding of social interaction. That's understandable, social interaction is the fundamental skill of business and I wouldn't expect many startups to succeed without someone who's very, very good at it. On the other hand YC can't teach someone to hack, but it can teach advanced social/business skills (or help a strong technical team find a non-technical cofounder) so maybe they should take that into account. On the gripping hand they have plenty of applicants to choose from. Why spend resources sifting through the purely technical teams when plenty of applicants already have both sides covered? EDIT: P.S. Instacart looks awesome though, so purely for personal benefit I'm glad they got in.
geuis 14y ago
pg talked about this last year before Startup School. The gist is that they are always modifying their methods for acceptance and that sometimes, they miss founders who later go on to be successful elsewhere. Indeed, pg said that because they have a massive amount of historical data (i.e. previously funded companies) they use this to guide their selection process during each batch. I've applied 3-4 times over the years. We got the interview once a couple years ago but not accepted, and had a phone call with Harj early this year but not the interview. So the point is that while knowing people who know people is useful, it's not necessary. The team is really looking at who the founders are, what kind of stuff they've built, how they get along and more. This fellow pulled the strings he could and was impressive enough that it worked. Final thing to note is that he's a solo founder. They almost never accept solos, because it most often takes a team to be successful. This guy was exceptional himself, and he proved it, which is why they accepted him. (Note: I don't know the founder at all. These are just my suppositions based on previous experience and encounters with the team.)
mirsadm 14y ago
Does it matter? Just go out there and create a company, be successful etc. Need money? Go work and save it. I moved back to my parents house and saved all my money so I could bootstrap my startup for over a year. It was tough (especially on my relationship with my girlfriend) but we worked through it. I strongly feel the biggest reason a lot of people apply for YC is simply to get funding. I even noticed this vibe when I met a few founders at Work at a startup. When you put your own money on the line you'll find you'll be hacking your way to make money in any way possible. You won't have much of a choice. Ignore this post if you're already doing these things :).
- jarek 14y ago
  > I moved back to my parents house and saved all my money so I could bootstrap my startup for over a year. That's easier to do when your parents live in a metropolitan area rather than Podunk, Flyover State. Just saying.
  - mirsadm 14y ago
    My parents live in a really shitty neighbourhood in Melbourne Australia (40 kms from downtown). I sold my car $50k car and bought a $2000 Corolla that would stall if it was too cold in the morning. Believe me it wasn't easy :).
HorizonXP 14y ago
Having worked outside in the "real-world" with large corporations, and having tried to sell my software as a 1-man crew, you're really going to have to get used to this. Most of us here know how difficult it is to build a technology-based startup and have it shine. YC has been through enough batches to start making judgements about what works and what doesn't. That means they can cut through the bullshit. You may be able to wow some guy at a Fortune 500 with your whiz-bang product, but being assessed by people in the know (i.e. your peers) is a whole other ballgame. Moreover, if you can't make it past YC's criticisms and processes, how are you going to do the same with people outside the startup community? Remember, we may be a tech-savvy community, but you need to convince the rest of the world why you're worthwhile. They need to see why they should buy/invest in your product. If showing off your product in the best light possible means delivering beer to a YC partner, then do it.
neurotech1 14y ago
"I've talked with a lot of startups who got in YC in the past several years, and none of them got a call or an interview without having connection inside or using some kind of a hack." I'm not sure that is a correct conclusion, at least the first part. The applications are screened by multiple people before it gets to the "interview" stage. My List of likely factors; * Team (do they work well together and have long friendship?) * Tenacity (Can they make it from concept to launch to growth?) * Technical skills (Do they have what it takes to execute the plan, without outsourcing the core development) * Growth potential The "Please tell us something that you (name) most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your advantage?" question is in there for a reason. IMO The partners want to see that you can come up with new and different ways of solving problems.
pg 14y ago
I've talked with a lot of startups who got in YC in the past several years, and none of them got a call or an interview without having connection inside or using some kind of a hack. Then your sample must be strangely biased, because most startups we fund don't.
earbitscom 14y ago
This is an inaccurate assessment. Our experience was exactly what YC say it will be for most founders. We applied and were rejected because we were little more than an idea and two business founders. We applied again next batch with an alpha site live and several more people on the team, we got an interview. We didn't know anybody, and never sent any communication to YC beyond our application. Since then, I have recommended around 3 applicants to the YC partners. One did not get an interview despite over $100,000 in sales. One did and was rejected. The other was also rejected, and was recently acquired. Maybe I'm not the "connection" you're referring to, but from everything I've seen the application process is what they say it is. And then you have people like the OP who do enough to show that they are more remarkable than you thought.

by d0m 14y ago

arkitaip 14y ago

Maybe keeping at it and deploying the beer hack - a very good marketing tactic, really - what made Y! make up their mind. Anyone that dedicated is bound to at least get stuff done.

tptacek 14y ago
"Dedicated enough to send a six pack" is not a very strong signal. Probably don't everyone start sending gifts to yc now.
- arkitaip 14y ago
  Dedicated as in contacting all Y! partners. Dedicated as in running up against a wall and finding a way around it. And it really wasn't about the beer but generating interest in Instacart.
- dkrich 14y ago
  I think you're kind of missing the point. He didn't just send a six-pack of beer, but rather he sent a six-pack of beer with his own product. I don't think getting food delivered to their offices is going to help your pitch for a new way to share photos.

tptacek 14y ago

You think the difference between interview and no-interview with a seed fund is "six pack of beer"? That doesn't sound naive to you? My read was, the difference here was between the idea of a business being discussed on the Internet, versus an instance of the actual real-world execution of that idea.

davidw 14y ago
Reciprocity isn't something to take that lightly, by all accounts. It's not that a six pack of beer buys your way in; that's absurd, it's that when someone has handed you something, you feel inclined to give something back. Chapter 2 of this book covers it in some detail: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BD2UUC/?tag=dedasys-20 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BD2UUC/?tag=dedasys-20 (no offense, anti-referral link guys). I thought "Thinking Fast, Thinking Slow" did as well, but a cursory search didn't turn anything up. Of course, something that's sort of missing from the story is how this showed Instacart in action: it sort of sounds like some guy driving up and handing them some beer, which in and of itself doesn't demonstrate a lot.
- tptacek 14y ago
  It's funny, because _Influence_ was the boy's assigned reading this summer. I'm pretty familiar with reciprocity. I don't think it's that easy to trigger it with a YC partner and a six pack of beer. I don't know, maybe it was Russian River. Mostly what I'm fixated on here is the difference between trying to prove your commitment to an idea on the Internet v. proving your commitment to an idea in real life. Lots of people are "Internet-determined". Give them a sequence of keys to punch, and they will do it, no matter how long that key sequence is! I can imagine, if my job was filtering through many hundreds of long key sequences from people on the Internet, that any signal of real-life commitment or execution would stand out.
- timr 14y ago
  Read a little further in that chapter, and it's made abundantly clear that abuse of reciprocity is worse than doing nothing at all: the Hare Krishnas almost never hand out flowers in the airport anymore, because everyone is on to the game. Not only did airports start to box them in to special areas, but people began to hate them. The same book goes into the importance of the magnitude of the reciprocity request: even the Krishnas, at the height of their success, couldn't ask people for huge donations in exchange for a flower.

S4M 14y ago

It doesn't seem impossible to get a connection with people inside YC. The OP, for example, asked YC alumni for some introduction. Maybe YC's way of selection is just a way to weed out people who would simply send an application and wait, instead of being pro-active.

seagreen 14y ago

By doing this they're selecting for people that have a strong understanding of social interaction. That's understandable, social interaction is the fundamental skill of business and I wouldn't expect many startups to succeed without someone who's very, very good at it. On the other hand YC can't teach someone to hack, but it can teach advanced social/business skills (or help a strong technical team find a non-technical cofounder) so maybe they should take that into account. On the gripping hand they have plenty of applicants to choose from. Why spend resources sifting through the purely technical teams when plenty of applicants already have both sides covered? EDIT: P.S. Instacart looks awesome though, so purely for personal benefit I'm glad they got in.

geuis 14y ago

pg talked about this last year before Startup School. The gist is that they are always modifying their methods for acceptance and that sometimes, they miss founders who later go on to be successful elsewhere. Indeed, pg said that because they have a massive amount of historical data (i.e. previously funded companies) they use this to guide their selection process during each batch. I've applied 3-4 times over the years. We got the interview once a couple years ago but not accepted, and had a phone call with Harj early this year but not the interview. So the point is that while knowing people who know people is useful, it's not necessary. The team is really looking at who the founders are, what kind of stuff they've built, how they get along and more. This fellow pulled the strings he could and was impressive enough that it worked. Final thing to note is that he's a solo founder. They almost never accept solos, because it most often takes a team to be successful. This guy was exceptional himself, and he proved it, which is why they accepted him. (Note: I don't know the founder at all. These are just my suppositions based on previous experience and encounters with the team.)

mirsadm 14y ago

Does it matter? Just go out there and create a company, be successful etc. Need money? Go work and save it. I moved back to my parents house and saved all my money so I could bootstrap my startup for over a year. It was tough (especially on my relationship with my girlfriend) but we worked through it. I strongly feel the biggest reason a lot of people apply for YC is simply to get funding. I even noticed this vibe when I met a few founders at Work at a startup. When you put your own money on the line you'll find you'll be hacking your way to make money in any way possible. You won't have much of a choice. Ignore this post if you're already doing these things :).

jarek 14y ago
> I moved back to my parents house and saved all my money so I could bootstrap my startup for over a year. That's easier to do when your parents live in a metropolitan area rather than Podunk, Flyover State. Just saying.
- mirsadm 14y ago
  My parents live in a really shitty neighbourhood in Melbourne Australia (40 kms from downtown). I sold my car $50k car and bought a $2000 Corolla that would stall if it was too cold in the morning. Believe me it wasn't easy :).

HorizonXP 14y ago

Having worked outside in the "real-world" with large corporations, and having tried to sell my software as a 1-man crew, you're really going to have to get used to this. Most of us here know how difficult it is to build a technology-based startup and have it shine. YC has been through enough batches to start making judgements about what works and what doesn't. That means they can cut through the bullshit. You may be able to wow some guy at a Fortune 500 with your whiz-bang product, but being assessed by people in the know (i.e. your peers) is a whole other ballgame. Moreover, if you can't make it past YC's criticisms and processes, how are you going to do the same with people outside the startup community? Remember, we may be a tech-savvy community, but you need to convince the rest of the world why you're worthwhile. They need to see why they should buy/invest in your product. If showing off your product in the best light possible means delivering beer to a YC partner, then do it.

neurotech1 14y ago

"I've talked with a lot of startups who got in YC in the past several years, and none of them got a call or an interview without having connection inside or using some kind of a hack." I'm not sure that is a correct conclusion, at least the first part. The applications are screened by multiple people before it gets to the "interview" stage. My List of likely factors; * Team (do they work well together and have long friendship?) * Tenacity (Can they make it from concept to launch to growth?) * Technical skills (Do they have what it takes to execute the plan, without outsourcing the core development) * Growth potential The "Please tell us something that you (name) most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your advantage?" question is in there for a reason. IMO The partners want to see that you can come up with new and different ways of solving problems.

pg 14y ago

I've talked with a lot of startups who got in YC in the past several years, and none of them got a call or an interview without having connection inside or using some kind of a hack. Then your sample must be strangely biased, because most startups we fund don't.

earbitscom 14y ago

This is an inaccurate assessment. Our experience was exactly what YC say it will be for most founders. We applied and were rejected because we were little more than an idea and two business founders. We applied again next batch with an alpha site live and several more people on the team, we got an interview. We didn't know anybody, and never sent any communication to YC beyond our application. Since then, I have recommended around 3 applicants to the YC partners. One did not get an interview despite over $100,000 in sales. One did and was rejected. The other was also rejected, and was recently acquired. Maybe I'm not the "connection" you're referring to, but from everything I've seen the application process is what they say it is. And then you have people like the OP who do enough to show that they are more remarkable than you thought.