3 ms·

Modern stacks (as in go and rust) are largely editor agnostic - it is Gosling who lives in the past, thinking that an IDE is still required(and a very weak one,

Modern stacks (as in go and rust) are largely editor agnostic - it is Gosling who lives in the past, thinking that an IDE is still required(and a very weak one, in case of abandoned Netbeans). One of the reasons, btw, why I would take Go over Java in a heartbeat.

pjmlp 1y ago
There is hardly anything modern about Go, a rebranded Limbo with with anti-intelectuals mentality. As for Rust, there is a reason the large majority is either on VSCode or RustRover.
- lycopodiopsida 1y ago
  I don’t care about opinions on Go the language, but the tooling around is excellent without being bound to an IDE. And no matter what you use: Goland, VSCode or dape in Emacs, your debugger will plug in the same delve. > the large majority is on VSCode Here, fixed it for ya. But since when is VSCode an IDE? It is just an extensible editor, not very far from Emacs or neovim. We’ll see how it plays out, but I assume that IDE is a dead concept. No one develops new IDEs anymore, besides the usual money-milking with “Idea + plugin=>new ${name}ide” from Jetbrains.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    You mean tooling as it was already kind of available on Turbo Pascal for MS-DOS? When people discuss Go tooling feels like Renaissance folks resdicovering Roman city enginnering. VSCode is certainly an Integrated Development Editor, and it is such a dead concept that one of the key Visual Age and Eclipse linage of IDEs is the one behind it, Erich Gamma. Biggest difference is that one hardly needs to code extensions, or manually configure them most of the time, a simple install button press is only that is needed to get any extension going, many of which graphical, taking all advantage of the Web platform.
    - lycopodiopsida 1y ago
      > You mean tooling as it was already kind of available on Turbo Pascal for MS-DOS? Spare me your stories of the TurboPascal, I am not a youngster, not easily impressed by name-dropping $some_old_thing and do not care about old men yelling at clouds. You may program in TurboPascal, if you like it. > When people discuss Go tooling feels like Renaissance folks resdicovering Roman city enginnering. People talk about Go tooling because it is good, lightweight, editor-agnostic, helpful and provided with the language. There are multiple language which fulfil some of the criteria, but not many fulfilling all of them. > VSCode is certainly an Integrated Development Editor If VSCode is an IDE, then also emacs and neovim and your lamenting has no meaning. And of course, the one behind VSCode is Atom which was heavily influenced by Sublime text. > Biggest difference is that one hardly needs to code extensions, or manually configure them most of the time, a simple install button press is only that is needed to get any extension going, many of which graphical, taking all advantage of the Web platform. So, basically a neovim distribution? Got it!
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        Apparently many people need the stories, given how much they boost Go about things that are prior art. Emacs could be an IDE, if it came with the whole Lisp Machine for the ride, sadly it is only a subset of the whole experience. VSCode has zero lines of Atom code into it, it started from Azure as Monaco project. Does neovim distribution handle graphical development plugins, without spawing external windows? Yeah, right.
        lycopodiopsida 1y ago
        > Apparently many people need the stories, given how much they boost Go about things that are prior art. No one but you here cares about prior art. And not even you, most likely, otherwise you would write your in some kind of lisp which was first on most of the things. > Emacs could be an IDE, if it came with the whole Lisp Machine for the ride, sadly it is only a subset of the whole experience. Lisp is just an implementation detail in (GNU) Emacs, even though it is what makes it a delight to configure. The rest is done, as everywhere, with plugins and built-in package management. > VSCode has zero lines of Atom code into it, it started from Azure as Monaco project. VSCode has everything from Atom in it, since it is basically a rewrite of Atom, using Electron, which was written for Atom. > Does neovim distribution handle graphical development plugins, without spawing external windows? What should it be, UML-plugins? Coroner has called, he wants his dead things back. But most stuff is handled with overlays these days with Telescope.
vips7L 1y ago
You don’t need an IDE for Java either. You can use vscode or neovim, the language server will work just fine. I’ve done both, but eventually moved back to idea (with ideavim).

pjmlp 1y ago

There is hardly anything modern about Go, a rebranded Limbo with with anti-intelectuals mentality. As for Rust, there is a reason the large majority is either on VSCode or RustRover.

lycopodiopsida 1y ago
I don’t care about opinions on Go the language, but the tooling around is excellent without being bound to an IDE. And no matter what you use: Goland, VSCode or dape in Emacs, your debugger will plug in the same delve. > the large majority is on VSCode Here, fixed it for ya. But since when is VSCode an IDE? It is just an extensible editor, not very far from Emacs or neovim. We’ll see how it plays out, but I assume that IDE is a dead concept. No one develops new IDEs anymore, besides the usual money-milking with “Idea + plugin=>new ${name}ide” from Jetbrains.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  You mean tooling as it was already kind of available on Turbo Pascal for MS-DOS? When people discuss Go tooling feels like Renaissance folks resdicovering Roman city enginnering. VSCode is certainly an Integrated Development Editor, and it is such a dead concept that one of the key Visual Age and Eclipse linage of IDEs is the one behind it, Erich Gamma. Biggest difference is that one hardly needs to code extensions, or manually configure them most of the time, a simple install button press is only that is needed to get any extension going, many of which graphical, taking all advantage of the Web platform.
  - lycopodiopsida 1y ago
    > You mean tooling as it was already kind of available on Turbo Pascal for MS-DOS? Spare me your stories of the TurboPascal, I am not a youngster, not easily impressed by name-dropping $some_old_thing and do not care about old men yelling at clouds. You may program in TurboPascal, if you like it. > When people discuss Go tooling feels like Renaissance folks resdicovering Roman city enginnering. People talk about Go tooling because it is good, lightweight, editor-agnostic, helpful and provided with the language. There are multiple language which fulfil some of the criteria, but not many fulfilling all of them. > VSCode is certainly an Integrated Development Editor If VSCode is an IDE, then also emacs and neovim and your lamenting has no meaning. And of course, the one behind VSCode is Atom which was heavily influenced by Sublime text. > Biggest difference is that one hardly needs to code extensions, or manually configure them most of the time, a simple install button press is only that is needed to get any extension going, many of which graphical, taking all advantage of the Web platform. So, basically a neovim distribution? Got it!
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      Apparently many people need the stories, given how much they boost Go about things that are prior art. Emacs could be an IDE, if it came with the whole Lisp Machine for the ride, sadly it is only a subset of the whole experience. VSCode has zero lines of Atom code into it, it started from Azure as Monaco project. Does neovim distribution handle graphical development plugins, without spawing external windows? Yeah, right.
      - lycopodiopsida 1y ago
        > Apparently many people need the stories, given how much they boost Go about things that are prior art. No one but you here cares about prior art. And not even you, most likely, otherwise you would write your in some kind of lisp which was first on most of the things. > Emacs could be an IDE, if it came with the whole Lisp Machine for the ride, sadly it is only a subset of the whole experience. Lisp is just an implementation detail in (GNU) Emacs, even though it is what makes it a delight to configure. The rest is done, as everywhere, with plugins and built-in package management. > VSCode has zero lines of Atom code into it, it started from Azure as Monaco project. VSCode has everything from Atom in it, since it is basically a rewrite of Atom, using Electron, which was written for Atom. > Does neovim distribution handle graphical development plugins, without spawing external windows? What should it be, UML-plugins? Coroner has called, he wants his dead things back. But most stuff is handled with overlays these days with Telescope.

vips7L 1y ago

You don’t need an IDE for Java either. You can use vscode or neovim, the language server will work just fine. I’ve done both, but eventually moved back to idea (with ideavim).