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It has already pretty much died, and I don't think it was by the hand of streaming. It was whatever process put a stop to new shows in the template of the reall
by jemmyw 1y ago
It has already pretty much died, and I don't think it was by the hand of streaming. It was whatever process put a stop to new shows in the template of the really great shows we had in the past. At some point the risk taking stopped and everything just became the same drudge. Of course, there was always plenty of drudge.
It was the comedies that were particularly good and very British. Some were very unusual and bizarre, the late night shows. But they were also where writers and comedians got a break and then became mainstream. I would guess that kind of thing is now made for the internet, and its a shame to see everything go so niche.
An article I came across a couple of years ago (wish I could find it!) talked about how there was this period of time when British TV started to diversify the source of talent, around the 80s and 90s. You got shows like Red Dwarf where the cast were not all from the same small set of drama schools. But it has now reverted and that kind of low budget, take a chance show doesn't get shown on the main channels.
- ramenbytes 1y agoProbably too recent, but any chance it was this? https://www.voicemag.uk/blog/14186/red-dwarf-diversity-in-space https://www.voicemag.uk/blog/14186/red-dwarf-diversity-in-sp...
- jemmyw 1y agoNo, it was longer and wasn't concentrated on red dwarf. It started on the casting for Sherlock.
- JFingleton 1y agoFrom Matt Lucas himself regarding Little Britain: 'Speaking in October 2017, Lucas stated that if he were to remake Little Britain he would avoid making jokes about transvestites and would not play the role of a black character, saying, "Basically, I wouldn't make that show now. It would upset people. We made a more cruel kind of comedy than I'd do now... Society has moved on a lot since then and my own views have evolved".' Basically the risk taking has gone in modern comedy.
- Ar-Curunir 1y agoThat’s what you got from the quote? Not the part about being cruel?
- JFingleton 1y agoYes i did... The risk of being cruel, and other things.
- croes 1y agoCruel against whom? Cruelty against the already marginalized is an easy target. Kicking downwards is easy.
- glimshe 1y agoMy son is a teenager but loves to watch old politically incorrect comedies like "Airplane". There's no way you could make that movie today... but there's certainly a market for it, cruel or not. Now that I think about it, it's no more cruel than what most kids watch on YouTube today.
- nkrisc 1y agoIt's been a few years since I watched Airplane, and while I absolutely love it, I recall it being rather tame even by modern standards. I can think of a few gags that might not land as well today, but I don't think it was mean-spirited.
- OtherShrezzing 1y agoComparing all programming in the 80s and 90s to current programming is going to throw up more “hits” for the multi-decade time range than the contemporary. There are a few other comments listing them all. The uk has lots of high quality novel shows coming out every year. Our tv export market is strong, both for programming and for formats.
- rgblambda 1y agoIt's not just the time range that's the issue with that comparison. Older shows had less competition and had a longer time to develop a cult following.
- madaxe_again 1y agoIt isn’t just comedies - there used to be a plethora of interesting documentaries produced by the beeb, to the extent that for a while they had a channel (BBC 4) pretty much dedicated to them. I used to be able to find something interesting on there any day of the week, and likewise, iPlayer held a great catalogue of content. BBC 4 was slated to be axed a few years ago, first thing on the chopping block. They seem to be stuck in decision paralysis, which is absolutely emblematic of what faces them. While the BBC still produce documentaries, the quality has declined over the last decade or so, and when Attenborough dies they will be fresh out of ideas, as right now it’s just… Attenborough, and licensed human interest pieces. I just can’t see it being a thing in 10, 20 years, as they surmise - I would wager they will whittle away until all that remains is BBC News, which will run on a shoestring, even more than it does now.
- polar 1y ago> BBC 4 was axed a few years ago No it was not. BBC Four is still going strong. It's great.
- madaxe_again 1y agoOk, fine, they decided to axe broadcast services and move it to be online only - but this discussion is about broadcast TV. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61591674 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-61591674
- polar 1y agoThey haven't moved it online. Find a TV and switch it on - BBC Four is still there, for now at least! https://ukfree.tv/channels/all/Freeview https://ukfree.tv/channels/all/Freeview
- rgblambda 1y agoI've noticed this a lot with anti-BBC folks. They have some ideological issue with it but that isn't a popular position so they go for more niche arguments like "The entire historical catalogue isn't fully available to watch on demand" or "They axed BBC <insert number> from broadcast". Arguments they don't actually care about. It's just a way to snipe at the BBC. As you've pointed out, if someone loves being able to watch BBC Four on broadcast TV, they're not going to be complaining about it's non existent axing.
- SkyeCA 1y ago> At some point the risk taking stopped and everything just became the same drudge. Same for all the big name movies these days, everyone is too scared to take a chance on something truly new. If you want a novel movie experience you basically have to look towards foreign films, often the more arty types (which I love On the topic of TV though just consider this for a moment, we lived in a world where someone was daring enough to air "Paedogeddon!" (a Brass Eye special that imo is an excellent work of satire) on TV. Something so controversial couldn't be made and aired today and it was barely able to be even back then.
- harvey9 1y agoRed Dwarf. Low budget yet still enjoyable today. I recall reading the SFX were done on an Amiga with something called a VideoToaster.
- semanticist 1y agoRed Dwarf used practical effects in the era when VideoToasters were a thing. For some reason the BBC replaced the lovely miniature shots of space ships with crap CG in a mid-2000s remaster.
- Lio 1y agoVideoToasters were a thing but they didn’t work with PAL, at at least not the original version. I agree that the models looked better IMHO.
- jl6 1y agoAre you perhaps thinking of Babylon 5? But yes, the low budget is part of the formula for success. Without a ton of money, they had to rely on wit and creativity. Most shows now have comparatively gargantuan budgets, and it goes on big sets, big effects and big names, but the things that actually make a show good (compelling story, enjoyable writing) are unbottleable magic that you can’t just buy.
- harvey9 1y agoI definitely meant Red Dwarf but another person pointed out that the show originally didn't use VFX.
- arp242 1y agoWould anyone like some toast? Muffin? Teacake? Buns? Baps? Baguette? Bagel? Crumpet? Pancake? Flapjack? Waffle?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- atombender 1y agoI think this is survivorship bias to a large degree. Sturgeon's Law applied then as it does now; 90% of everything is crud. Go back 20-30 years, and the shows you remember as great are only a tiny fraction of the total output. Some (like Monty Python or Brass Eye) were extreme outliers. Some shows seen as notable at the time are now mostly, though not always fairly, forgotten because they haven't aged well. Nobody's really watching, I don't know, The Onedin Line or Against the Wind today.
- jxjnskkzxxhx 1y agoI would argue Monty python is in fact not an exception. Their best sketches are just outstanding, but their median sketches are very unfunny indeed. The actual exception is e.g. the life of Brian where you have 90 minutes where almost every scene is funny or at least engaging. Compare with e.g. the holy grail where the best 90% is quite good but the rest is... Not...
- atombender 1y agoI think this misses the broader point of how revolutionary they were. They were hugely original and experimental, breaking with a lot of comedy conventions and redefining them. They've been compared to The Beatles for good reason. They were never the same kind of worldwide phenomenon, but they were equally influential.
- jxjnskkzxxhx 1y agoWe were talking about ratio of good stuff to bad stuff.
- atombender 1y agoSure. They may have had their misses, but the Pythons were exceptional. A classic TV show, two fantastic movies (plus a flawed one), a live stage show that's become a classic — they were among the best of their era, and we're still talking about them.
- jxjnskkzxxhx 1y agoI find it interesting that you mention red dwarf. As I started reading your comment I thought I'd comment something "i think that's just nostalgia, for example red dwarf is awful but people love it". And then you mention red dwarf.
- jemmyw 1y agoEye of the beholder. I personally think Red Dwarf series 1 to 6 was great. It even charts a course of British TV decline. Series 1 and 2, low budget sitcom, class warfare and the loneliness of space. Series 3, more budget, more sci-fi, but similar writing. Series 4 and 5, more budget, more sci-fi, becomes monster of the week, but the character building from the prior series keeps it funny. Series 6, even more budget, they start to explore some more interesting sci-fi themes. This turns out to be popular, so it gets more budget again and moves to BBC 1, more cast etc. Series 7, 8 just urgh, trying to appeal to "mainstream" was stupid because it was already popular enough, it loses the serious side. Everything they've done since then feels like they're trying to force the humour that came naturally before. The actors have aged but the writing didn't mature with them. I watched some interviews with the cast and they would joke around in the canteen between filming and find their jokes had been overheard and incorporated into the script. It had this realistic dialogue.
- evanelias 1y agoPersonally I thought seasons 11 and 12 were excellent. Substantially better than the other season 7+ / post Rob Grant departure stuff. And then after season 12, The Promised Land movie was just ok, but it still had a few genuinely funny moments.