5 ms·

First it was rock and roll, then video games, then cell phones. When all along it’s been lack of mental health care in general. This shouldn’t be a surprise.

ashoeafoot 1y ago
? So, the goal is not to prevent or reduce trauma, but treat it more often once it happens ? What nonsense is that? Do you get a per patient kuckback by the psychiatrist guuld and associated parties?
- alistairSH 1y ago
  Yeah, I get kickbacks when I state mental health care in the US is mediocre. /s Get the fuck out with that nonsense.
  - ashoeafoot 1y ago
    The goal should never ever be bandaid first, always reduce, stop stabbing first, bandaging second.
maerch 1y ago
Whenever I see arguments about past scapegoats, something about them doesn’t sit right with me. Some things today are simply more addictive than others—and often deliberately designed that way by large corporations. More importantly, they’re everywhere and carry intense peer pressure. I never experienced that with the things people used to worry about. I listened to a lot of so-called “devil’s music” and played plenty of first-person shooters, and it was never quite the same.
- abnercoimbre 1y ago
  The false equivalence is always striking, and your reasonable counterargument usually gets dismissed too. I wish I could unravel the mysteries behind our peers defending the status quo so much.
carlosjobim 1y ago
Don't you think rap music has a negative influence? Or pornography? When was it decided that it's not true that popular culture and technology can have a destructive influence on people? This was decided before I was born, so why should it be my duty to accept it as true? The more I notice this, the more crazy it seems. When was it decided that the TV should be center in every home and treated like the most important thing in life? Those are just people in a studio, yet most people and especially old people consider those people to be gods, deserving the greatest reverence. Who told them to buy a TV and put it into their homes? How could that become normal?
- orwin 1y ago
  Because before rap, it was rnb. Before RnB, it was Rock. Before Rock, it was Jazz, before Jazz, it was Blues, and before Blues, it was any music containing thirds or sevenths. Popular music is just that: popular, and since people like to appear distinct from the masses, some do it via music. I don't disagree with the rest, but 'rap music has a negative influence' is extremely reactionary.
- alistairSH 1y ago
  Anything can cause harm in the extreme. At the same time, society tends to blame the shiny new thing for all that ails it. And there's always a shiny new thing.
agumonkey 1y ago
Not disagreeing but this new era brought its share of issues that didn't exist before, from social fame anxiety, sexuality/gender anxiety, news doomscrolling .. Also, sadly, psychology is hyper relativistic.. the same person with a different psychological education can become suicidal or give zero damn about the same situation.
- XorNot 1y ago
  There is no evidence this is a new era, rather then just one on which those things are actually talked about. Gay people existed well before smartphones, you don't think sexuality anxiety might've been a significant issue for people in less tolerant societies?
  - agumonkey 1y ago
    Not in the same way at all. People knew it was rejected so you live your fake life and hide your desires for when / where you can. Now it's a question whether people should or shouldn't accept you, you spend more time in indecision and worries. People might suffer, but not the same.
- jffhn 1y ago
  >the same person with a different psychological education can become suicidal or give zero damn about the same situation Or even like it. Reminds me of a quote about solitude: "I live on what others die of." (Michelangelo)
lezojeda 1y ago
[dead]
thomassmith65 1y ago
This assumes rock'n'roll and video games did not cause widespread societal problems, which actually is hard to determine conclusively. Yes, most of us have a gut instinct that no harm was done, but that's likely down to presentism and selective perception.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
rightbyte 1y ago
In the story of the boy that cried wolf there was a wolf in the end and smartphones might very well be one.
catapart 1y ago
Yeah; this all rings pretty sound to me. I've worked with 14-17 year olds most of my adult life and everything comes down to how the kid does in their "home" environment. More specifically, how their closest people treat them, rather than any action they are taking. Kids - even 17 year olds - are infantalized and treated as if they don't have anything to contribute. They are "supposed" to just do what they are told and follow a "normal" path of going to school and then getting a job and working. A school where they aren't allowed to learn about what they are interested in, and can only learn the government-mandated testable knowledge. A job that will force them to wake up early and commute late and leave them with no time or energy to engage in the hobbies that they never actually cultivated because doing metalworking is too loud and doing programming is wasting time on a computer and flight training is too expensive and, and, and, and... The amount of success I've had just VALIDATING kids is fucking incredible. Talk to them as if their idea is worth hearing, and then ask them questions that make them challenge their own ideas. Whether it's about a project they think would be cool, or about how they feel about something that happened with their parents. When they can devote time to think about it, without feeling like discussing it is an attack on anyone or an imposition to the listener - they sort shit out just like anyone else. And whenever I find myself kind of marveling at - say - an 11 year old speaking with what feels like emotional intelligence beyond their years, I remember that in the early 1900s, 11 year old's might have been fucking floor managers at a textile industry, or pickaxe-swinging coal miners. Kids are entirely capable at 11 years old and it only comes out if you engage them in ways that hone that capability. Which should obviously NEVER be forced or coerced labor. But you can talk to them like they are adults. In any case, I've been mentoring kids since before cell phones and not a damn thing has changed. If the kid's distracted, you don't need to worry about what is able to distract them - you need to worry about why they were bored enough (or preoccupied) to get distracted in the first place. And that's really the heart of the whole thing: people really want for the kids or the "mentally infirm" or the OTHER to have to do better when the simple truth is that the person needs to be doing better. The parent, the teacher, the mentor, the friend; they have to be meeting the HUMAN BEING (who happens to be a child) at their level rather than feeling disappointed that the kid didn't meet them at some other level.
- sceptic123 1y ago

ashoeafoot 1y ago

? So, the goal is not to prevent or reduce trauma, but treat it more often once it happens ? What nonsense is that? Do you get a per patient kuckback by the psychiatrist guuld and associated parties?

alistairSH 1y ago
Yeah, I get kickbacks when I state mental health care in the US is mediocre. /s Get the fuck out with that nonsense.
- ashoeafoot 1y ago
  The goal should never ever be bandaid first, always reduce, stop stabbing first, bandaging second.

maerch 1y ago

Whenever I see arguments about past scapegoats, something about them doesn’t sit right with me. Some things today are simply more addictive than others—and often deliberately designed that way by large corporations. More importantly, they’re everywhere and carry intense peer pressure. I never experienced that with the things people used to worry about. I listened to a lot of so-called “devil’s music” and played plenty of first-person shooters, and it was never quite the same.

abnercoimbre 1y ago
The false equivalence is always striking, and your reasonable counterargument usually gets dismissed too. I wish I could unravel the mysteries behind our peers defending the status quo so much.

carlosjobim 1y ago

Don't you think rap music has a negative influence? Or pornography? When was it decided that it's not true that popular culture and technology can have a destructive influence on people? This was decided before I was born, so why should it be my duty to accept it as true? The more I notice this, the more crazy it seems. When was it decided that the TV should be center in every home and treated like the most important thing in life? Those are just people in a studio, yet most people and especially old people consider those people to be gods, deserving the greatest reverence. Who told them to buy a TV and put it into their homes? How could that become normal?

orwin 1y ago
Because before rap, it was rnb. Before RnB, it was Rock. Before Rock, it was Jazz, before Jazz, it was Blues, and before Blues, it was any music containing thirds or sevenths. Popular music is just that: popular, and since people like to appear distinct from the masses, some do it via music. I don't disagree with the rest, but 'rap music has a negative influence' is extremely reactionary.
alistairSH 1y ago
Anything can cause harm in the extreme. At the same time, society tends to blame the shiny new thing for all that ails it. And there's always a shiny new thing.

agumonkey 1y ago

Not disagreeing but this new era brought its share of issues that didn't exist before, from social fame anxiety, sexuality/gender anxiety, news doomscrolling .. Also, sadly, psychology is hyper relativistic.. the same person with a different psychological education can become suicidal or give zero damn about the same situation.

XorNot 1y ago
There is no evidence this is a new era, rather then just one on which those things are actually talked about. Gay people existed well before smartphones, you don't think sexuality anxiety might've been a significant issue for people in less tolerant societies?
- agumonkey 1y ago
  Not in the same way at all. People knew it was rejected so you live your fake life and hide your desires for when / where you can. Now it's a question whether people should or shouldn't accept you, you spend more time in indecision and worries. People might suffer, but not the same.
jffhn 1y ago
>the same person with a different psychological education can become suicidal or give zero damn about the same situation Or even like it. Reminds me of a quote about solitude: "I live on what others die of." (Michelangelo)

lezojeda 1y ago

[dead]

thomassmith65 1y ago

This assumes rock'n'roll and video games did not cause widespread societal problems, which actually is hard to determine conclusively. Yes, most of us have a gut instinct that no harm was done, but that's likely down to presentism and selective perception.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

rightbyte 1y ago

In the story of the boy that cried wolf there was a wolf in the end and smartphones might very well be one.

catapart 1y ago

Yeah; this all rings pretty sound to me. I've worked with 14-17 year olds most of my adult life and everything comes down to how the kid does in their "home" environment. More specifically, how their closest people treat them, rather than any action they are taking. Kids - even 17 year olds - are infantalized and treated as if they don't have anything to contribute. They are "supposed" to just do what they are told and follow a "normal" path of going to school and then getting a job and working. A school where they aren't allowed to learn about what they are interested in, and can only learn the government-mandated testable knowledge. A job that will force them to wake up early and commute late and leave them with no time or energy to engage in the hobbies that they never actually cultivated because doing metalworking is too loud and doing programming is wasting time on a computer and flight training is too expensive and, and, and, and... The amount of success I've had just VALIDATING kids is fucking incredible. Talk to them as if their idea is worth hearing, and then ask them questions that make them challenge their own ideas. Whether it's about a project they think would be cool, or about how they feel about something that happened with their parents. When they can devote time to think about it, without feeling like discussing it is an attack on anyone or an imposition to the listener - they sort shit out just like anyone else. And whenever I find myself kind of marveling at - say - an 11 year old speaking with what feels like emotional intelligence beyond their years, I remember that in the early 1900s, 11 year old's might have been fucking floor managers at a textile industry, or pickaxe-swinging coal miners. Kids are entirely capable at 11 years old and it only comes out if you engage them in ways that hone that capability. Which should obviously NEVER be forced or coerced labor. But you can talk to them like they are adults. In any case, I've been mentoring kids since before cell phones and not a damn thing has changed. If the kid's distracted, you don't need to worry about what is able to distract them - you need to worry about why they were bored enough (or preoccupied) to get distracted in the first place. And that's really the heart of the whole thing: people really want for the kids or the "mentally infirm" or the OTHER to have to do better when the simple truth is that the person needs to be doing better. The parent, the teacher, the mentor, the friend; they have to be meeting the HUMAN BEING (who happens to be a child) at their level rather than feeling disappointed that the kid didn't meet them at some other level.

sceptic123 1y ago