3 ms·

how long did enron last before they had to close because of fraud? it was over 20 years i'm pretty sure. that's not a good estimate.

tbrownaw 1y ago
Enron started out as a real company doing real things, and only pivoted to fraud later.
- refulgentis 1y ago
  Well, I wouldn't put it that way as long as we're correcting the record. It was always the boring moving dirt company, never pivoted, but it grew a cancer that became Too Big To Fail because it was more profitable than moving dirt. - it did boring non-tech big industry stuff - it was good at this - it started an in-house hedging department (normal) - they were good at their jobs and accidentally created a massive speculative trading business that fell apart
  - elictronic 1y ago
    They caused statewide blackouts in California and bankrupted utilities by causing energy prices to be 20x normal rates. You know, boring stuff like that.
    - awesome_dude 1y ago
      > bankrupted utilities by causing energy prices to be 20x normal rates Allegedly this is "good business", something that companies aspire to do (creating an environment where their competitors fail, and they profit big time)
    - refulgentis 1y ago
      Well, as long as we're correcting the record, I'd point out yes, you get it: there was the in house hedging department that turned into Wolf of Wall Street traders, and there was the dirt movers this small group metastasized on and destroyed.
    - s1artibartfast 1y ago
      I don't think anyone misses that fact. You don't have to keep pointing it out. In the context of this conversation, they also did many other things. The point of bringing it up is the demonstrate that companies are capable of doing multiple things in the course of their existence.
RandallBrown 1y ago
Enron still did things in addition to their fraud. They ran power plants and fiber optic networks. Those things continued to exist after they went bankrupt.
- elictronic 1y ago
  Were the direct cause of the 2000-2001 California blackouts bankrupting public utilities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%932001_California_electricity_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%932001_California...
dessimus 1y ago
According to SEC, Madoff started his Ponzi scheme in the early 90s and wasn't arrested until December 2008, about 15 years or so.

tbrownaw 1y ago

Enron started out as a real company doing real things, and only pivoted to fraud later.

refulgentis 1y ago
Well, I wouldn't put it that way as long as we're correcting the record. It was always the boring moving dirt company, never pivoted, but it grew a cancer that became Too Big To Fail because it was more profitable than moving dirt. - it did boring non-tech big industry stuff - it was good at this - it started an in-house hedging department (normal) - they were good at their jobs and accidentally created a massive speculative trading business that fell apart
- elictronic 1y ago
  They caused statewide blackouts in California and bankrupted utilities by causing energy prices to be 20x normal rates. You know, boring stuff like that.
  - awesome_dude 1y ago
    > bankrupted utilities by causing energy prices to be 20x normal rates Allegedly this is "good business", something that companies aspire to do (creating an environment where their competitors fail, and they profit big time)
  - refulgentis 1y ago
    Well, as long as we're correcting the record, I'd point out yes, you get it: there was the in house hedging department that turned into Wolf of Wall Street traders, and there was the dirt movers this small group metastasized on and destroyed.
  - s1artibartfast 1y ago
    I don't think anyone misses that fact. You don't have to keep pointing it out. In the context of this conversation, they also did many other things. The point of bringing it up is the demonstrate that companies are capable of doing multiple things in the course of their existence.

RandallBrown 1y ago

Enron still did things in addition to their fraud. They ran power plants and fiber optic networks. Those things continued to exist after they went bankrupt.

elictronic 1y ago
Were the direct cause of the 2000-2001 California blackouts bankrupting public utilities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%932001_California_electricity_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%932001_California...

dessimus 1y ago

According to SEC, Madoff started his Ponzi scheme in the early 90s and wasn't arrested until December 2008, about 15 years or so.