4 ms·

The world we live in, with the people we live with, require accomodations every single day. Not locking a door allows the students who were delayed on the road

• Aeolun 1y ago
  It also allows the people actually in the class a lesson uninterrupted by random people for variety of good/bad reasons. Most 90% of students is not late on any given day. Should they all be penalized for the actions of a few?
  • shakna 1y ago
    So you're happy to punish 10% of students, for no fault of their own. You'll trade a moment's distraction, for a paid-for day's learning. That, is a lack of empathy. Especially as for about the last hundred years universities have had a process that allows for the necessary flexibility. To take this to the extreme... Should we simply fire everyone who is late to work, without reason? If someone else causes a car accident, should we simply revoke the licenses of everyone involved, regardless?
    • QuarterReptile 1y ago
      Come now, we can be more extreme than that! Late for class, your city gets nuked. Forget an assignment, bioweapon deployed. Bomb an exam, and you're on the first plane to the front lines in Ukraine.
      • PlunderBunny 1y ago
        See also: we can reduce the number of police and compensate by increasing the penalties for crime (late 20th century edition).
    • Aeolun 1y ago
      > Should we simply fire everyone who is late to work, without reason? Not necessarily, but I think you’d see a much more consistent attendance rate. Which is of course the whole point of such a policy.
      • shakna 1y ago
        The student is the employer, though. They are paying the university for a service. They aren't the employee.
        • Planktonne 1y ago
          The student is the customer, not the employer, if you must phrase it in those terms. And I think education benefits when you define the student as a student, before anything else.
          • shakna 1y ago
            Those educational benefits are being denied here, for reasons outside the customers hands.
          • bumby 1y ago
            Jonathan Haidt details quite a few reasons why treating a student as a customer creates bad incentives and poor outcomes (just agreeing with you on the student-first point)
  • degamad 1y ago
    The request is not to transfer the burden onto the 90%, but to design a system where the 10% are able to participate without impeding the 90%. For example, if students enter from the rear of the room, then delayed students can join without disrupting the on-time students. If we start the design process with the awareness that some students will be late, then we can design systems which support all students.
    • ryandrake 1y ago
      Here’s a process for that 10%: wake up 30 minutes earlier to create a buffer that allows for unexpected events like traffic and for expected events like “I just can’t seem to be on time, maybe I’m sick.”
      • throwaway173738 1y ago
        I’ve been in the 90% at times and in the 10% at others. People should be entitled to grace, and we shouldn’t just assume anyone who isn’t absolutely punctual is a malingerer. Unless you live alone on a thousand acres you’re perpetually giving other people grace for their foibles and they’re giving you grace for yours.
      • yard2010 1y ago
        This doesn't work, any other smart easy solution to heal this disease?
      • exe34 1y ago
        "Just get less sleep, bro!" isn't the gotcha you think it is.
  • exe34 1y ago
    Make them sit at the back of the class?
• deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
• bumby 1y ago
  >If the professor is delayed due to a tire puncture, should they lose their tenure? This seems like a false equivalency. The student isn’t getting dropped from their degree program, they’re missing a class. If a professor is late, especially habitually late, I may not advocate for them losing tenure, but I’d certainly expect it to have a smaller impact like being brought up in a performance review.
  • shakna 1y ago
    They're missing a class, yes. A class that they have paid to access. A class that the professor would not be teaching, if they did not believe it essential to the degree program. They are being denied access to something both important, and already paid for.
    • bumby 1y ago
      “Already paid for” does not imply you get to have it on your terms, however and whenever you want it. As an earlier comment alludes to, this is part of the problem of treating students as “customers”.