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New research reveals the strongest solar event ever detected, in 12350 BC
- nntwozz 1y agoSo we can look forward to radiocarbon spikes in the weather forecast. "New SOCOL:14C-Ex model reveals that the Late-Glacial radiocarbon spike in 12350 BC was caused by the record-strong extreme solar storm".
- ggm 1y agoThis would not have been kind to any RF/EMF systems, be they GEO, LEO or terrestrial. We'd have been walking around marvelling at st elmo's fire coming off any point-contact junction between metal or exposed metal structure, with the most fantastic skies at night. On the other hand, would allergy sufferers be marvelling at the removal of all the dust and pollen? This would be like the outdoors becoming a giant anti-static dust remover. Primitive man wakes up, discovers can breathe through both nostrils...
- roygbiv2 1y agoHow would this effect computers and everyday electrical devices? If we detected something like this heading towards us would we have to turn everything off for the day/week? That's just not possible though is it, can't just turn off nuclear power plants for the day.
- cyberax 1y agoThere won't be any effect. Solar flares do NOT affect the devices on the ground. All the fast-moving charged particles are completely absorbed in the upper atmosphere. And to give you some perspective, the most energetic flares can produce 10^-3 W/m^2 flux at the Earth's orbit. The flares do affect the geomagnetic field. And a changing magnetic field induces current, but it becomes non-negligible only for very long conductors. So long-distance power transmission lines might suddenly become biased with a persistent DC voltage, and some long optical cables might start experiencing over/undervoltage problems with amplifiers. But locally? You won't see anything unusual.
- roygbiv2 1y agoWell there you go then, a little dull but probably for the best.
- jiggawatts 1y agoThe panic about these is way out of proportion with the real risks. Modern systems have all sorts of over-voltage protection, and we no longer use "telegraph wires" directly connected to vulnerable electronics like speakers and amplifiers. All modern telecommunications are over fibre or radio links.
- adgjlsfhk1 1y agoHow much do wire distance, intended voltage matter? All the power electronics are almost certainly protected by caps, but are big office ethernet runs long enough to cause issues? What about coax cables? It seems like with how many more cables we have now, that one of them probably has a design that would cause notable inconvenience.
- cyberax 1y agoYou need at least hundreds of kilometers for the effects to become significant (as in "tens of volts"). Nothing on the small scale will be affected. Power lines might be the most vulnerable part, actually. The geomagnetic field can induce current that will bias the core of transformers, causing them to overheat. This can lead to blackouts if the networks are close to capacity, and it's suspected that the 2003 North East Blackout was at least partially caused by them.
- lazide 1y agoOver voltage protection is not provided by caps (generally), but MOV’s, Zenier Diodes, spark gaps, etc. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protector https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protector]. Essentially, components that kick in when a voltage exceeds a certain limit to allow that excess voltage to shunt to ground instead of continue to build up in the circuit. Similar devices in pneumatics or hydraulics are pressure relief valves [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_valve https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_valve], and they provide similar functionality - giving a easier/lower resistance path for the high voltage/pressure, so delicate things downstream don’t fail.
- brookst 1y agoDamn, you took me from “hope that doesn’t happen again in my lifetime” to “oh Jesus please let that happen tomorrow” in just a few words.
- hattar 1y agoI spent my whole life only breathing through half a nostril on a good day. About 10 years ago I got surgery and Sublingual Immunotherapy drops, and the results have been life changing. I sleep better, my mind is clearer, I feel like an entirely new person. I am not exaggerating when I say that I still occasionally think about how nice it is to be able to breathe clearly.
- coenhyde 1y agoOxygen is a hell of a drug. I use nose strips, and I'm addicted now too.
- thanatos519 1y agoI tried nose strips but I don't like disposables. I now use silicone nostril openers - two little tubes attached at the base that you stick up your nose. It came as a set of 4 sizes so a bit of waste there, but one size fit me and one size fit my wife.
- bakoo 1y agoI would love to know where you got them from!
- N2yhWNXQN3k9 1y agoYou can find them under the search phrase: "nasal dilator".
- N2yhWNXQN3k9 1y agoThese work well, but I wonder about hygiene. I keep mine in a glass dish on my desktop and attempt to cleanse them in hydrogen peroxide on occasion. Ultimately, surgery is the best option in my experienced opinion, but it also has diminishing returns over time (~20 years in my case). This occurred recently for me, and I am looking to consult with an ENT again, when I feel like taking the recovery leap. With that said, I am still functioning extremely better than I ever did when I couldn't breathe 20 years ago.
- cyberax 1y agoYou're overestimating the effects. They would have been imperceptible on the ground, except for the stunning aurorae.
- aaron695 1y ago[dead]
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> would allergy sufferers be marvelling at the removal of all the dust and pollen? This would be like the outdoors becoming a giant anti-static dust remover How do solar flares render pollen groundborne?
- ggm 1y agoHow did research on the solar event find a layer deposited in what is undoubtedly surface not upper atmosphere?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> How did research on the solar event find a layer deposited in what is undoubtedly surface not upper atmosphere? FTFA: "Solar particle storms can greatly enhance the normal production of cosmogenic isotopes like radiocarbon (14C) in the atmosphere by galactic cosmic rays. Such enhanced production, preserved in annual tree rings, serves as a clear cosmic timestamp making possible absolute dating of tree samples."
- Mistletoe 1y agoI feel like primitive man had no problems breathing through both nostrils anyway. https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/allergies-are-common-today-but-did-they-also-impact-our-ancient-ancestors https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/allergies-are-common...
- ajuc 1y agoThe ones that had - died as small kids.
- konart 1y ago>Primitive man wakes up, discovers can breathe through both nostrils... Not exactly both though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_cycle
- greggsy 1y agoI recall reading about some link between respiratory effectiveness and human development. No idea how valid that research might have been. In retrospect, it almost borders on phrenology.
- TimByte 1y agoNature's way of saying sorry for the EMP apocalypse
- emchammer 1y agoAren’t smaller microprocessor die sizes more vulnerable to this? Should we be building integrated circuits with larger feature sizes now that we have power and performance figured out?
- otherayden 1y agoJust 5 years away from being 12345
- bitwize 1y agoThat's amazing! I've got the same combination on my luggage!
- dx4100 1y agoSame as my bank pin too!
- DonHopkins 1y agoNow your balance is 00000!
- fugalfervor 1y agoI don't know why you're being downvoted for quoting Spaceballs.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 1y ago[flagged]
- bitwize 1y agoPresumably because it's "not the kind of discussion we want to foster here at HN".
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ldjkfkdsjnv 1y agothis made me laugh
- coolcase 1y agoIt's a Fibonacci sequence number of decades though Just think: number of earth revolutions between this event and now minus the number of earth revolutions since Jesus Christ divided by number of fingers and thumbs on a human written out in base (number of fingers and thumbs on a human) is a sequence where each digit is the sum of the previous two digits. What are the chances?
- TheBlight 1y agoDoesn't that roughly coincide with the Younger Dryas?
- mensetmanusman 1y agoYes, such a fun topic…
- N2yhWNXQN3k9 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas_impact_hypothesi... a topic infected by bullshit
- mensetmanusman 1y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas Why jump right to the impact hypothesis?
- kuprel 1y agoThis was my first thought. It seems this solar event happened over 1000 years before Younger Dryas
- N2yhWNXQN3k9 1y agobetter make a podcast episode about it, maybe a netflix series /s
- sneak 1y ago> The findings revise our understanding of solar physics and space weather extremes. "This event establishes a new worst-case scenario," Golubenko notes. "Understanding its scale is critical for evaluating the risks posed by future solar storms to modern infrastructure like satellites, power grids, and communication systems." …then proceeds to not explain anything about what that new, data-supported worst case scenario is. The whole article is light on quantitative data, it’s a shame.
- decimalenough 1y agoThe story is about scientists establishing that over 10,000 years ago, there was a spike in carbon-14 production that's higher than anything previous recorded. Figuring this out was already complicated enough (see actual study below), but going from that into modelling what kind of flare could have produced this is a whole new level of speculation. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X25001827?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0012821X2...
- JoeDaDude 1y agoIs this not one of the Miyake Events[1]? This particular one was reported in 2023 [2]. [1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyake_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyake_event [2]. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0262407923018924?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02624...
- zamadatix 1y agoThe article notes it is. The article seems to focus on the new discovery of just how strong the particular event seems to have been compared to the others, not the initial discovery of the event itself.
- wpnx 1y agoI’m curious what humans at the time would have felt, if anything.
- rubitxxx6 1y ago> This event establishes a new worst-case scenario This person’s definition of “worst-case scenario” is much different than mine. We don’t know with certainty what the universe will throw at us. We just do the very best we sensibly can. Why should we assume that the worst thing that could happen to us happened within the past 20K years?
- thrdbndndn 1y agoI honestly don't understand what you're trying to say, even from a semantic standpoint.
- tempestn 1y agoI think they're quibbling with the fact that this isn't technically the worst case scenario, but merely the worst known, historical case.
- perihelions 1y ago(pdf) https://oulurepo.oulu.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/55447/nbnfioulu-202504282959.pdf https://oulurepo.oulu.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/55447/nbnfio...
- rw3000 1y agohttps://www.robertschoch.com/sida.html https://www.robertschoch.com/sida.html
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- verisimi 1y agoIsn't it amazing that we have an in-silico model that goes back thousands of years and can even tell us about atmospheric conditions 12,000+ years ago? We can confirm this via miyake events which are registered as growth in the tree rings. One just cuts down 13,000 year old trees to confirm the model, and we're good!
- mock-possum 1y agoSurely one could just make due with a core sample.
- decimalenough 1y agoThe article casually mentions a "notorious" 775 AD event which I'd never heard about (insert relevant XKCD here), so here's Wikipedia: The event of 774 had no significant consequences for life on Earth, but had it happened in modern times, it might have produced catastrophic damage to modern technology, particularly to communication and space-borne navigation systems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/774%E2%80%93775_carbon-14_spike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/774%E2%80%93775_carbon-14_spik... Interestingly, the identification of the cause of the 775 AD event with a huge solar flare came from the same researchers as this story.
- bee_rider 1y agoNot a single telegraph wire was operational, in the wake of the 775 AD event.
- verisimi 1y agoGood lord, you're right! Not even one functional iphone has been found from the period either!
- verzali 1y agoIt took so long to get the lights back on that we call it the "Dark" Age
- fallingknife 1y agoWhat about Android? Is that also vulnerable?
- fshafique 1y agoChances are that people died of other causes before any cancer could metastasize.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- __MatrixMan__ 1y agoI hope it doesn't take so long to happen again that we have nobody around who remembers how to fix what it breaks. If so it'll be back to the stone ages for humanity.
- zwnow 1y agoYea billions of dead people. What a thing to hope for.
- Aachen 1y agoI didn't read the comment in that way, but rather that it's better to kill electronics while we still have people alive who know how to build back better rather than that it strikes us in a situation where robots make everything from food to food-making robots
- HKH2 1y agoA guy once wrote a whole book about that. Unfortunately he started randomly killing people.
- acuozzo 1y agoI don't condone what he did, but... 1. His intention wasn't to destroy in order to build resilience. 2. His targets weren't random.
- hyperdimension 1y agoI'm dense. Who are you two talking about?
- acuozzo 1y agoUnabomber
- HKH2 1y ago
- curtisszmania 1y ago[dead]
- aussieguy1234 1y agoWere they able to measure the -nT value for this storm? That would be interesting to know, I was at the May 11th 2024 event taking photos. It was probably the strongest in the last 30 years.
- ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyake_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyake_event
- ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 1y agoNew as in research from 2023? https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0262407923018924 https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S02624079230189...
- badmonster 1y agowow that's cool. Given that the 12350 BC event was over 500 times more intense than the 2005 solar storm, what are the possible consequences if a storm of similar magnitude were to occur today?
- zeristor 1y agoIf this is C14 then this requires biological matter. Carbon dating depends on C14 so I’d assume that this needs to be tied to a chain of tree ring dates going back to tie these events down. There’s no doubt evidence of stronger events further back, it would be interesting to see if theirs a loose record of suggested intensities for those. I take it most of these details will be in the happy which I’ll need to study.
- N2yhWNXQN3k9 1y agohttps://www.nature.com/articles/nature11123 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11123
- gitroom 1y ago[dead]
- Coaturne 1y agoAn international research team has identified the most extreme solar particle storm ever recorded, occurring approximately 14,300 years ago in 12350 BC.
- jvanderbot 1y agoAre there any cultural artifacts from these types of events? You'd think there would be stories of sky gods causing all kinds of mischief in areas where they are unaccustomed to aurora.
- api 1y agoMore fuel for the Fermi paradox. Our sun is a fairly calm well behaved star. Many stars, even if they allow life, might make anything using electricity very problematic. Of course ours will eventually if we don’t prepare. Seems like this type of event would also doom any space settlements if it hit one. Makes me wonder if going to the outer solar system further from the sun would be better than Mars.
- iSnow 1y agoThe outer solar system is a pretty inhospitable place due to cold, darkness and cosmic rays. You'd need a lot of nuclear power plants to survive there, and it must be the most depressing existence living below ground.
- sharpshadow 1y agoIf I notice an unusual and not predicted weather change I usually check for space weather news to see what’s the sun up to. Afaik no weather model can include solar flares reasonably which can temporarily change the weather on earth abruptly.
- PaulRobinson 1y agoAround this time we know there was a rise in human migration and settlement across Europe in particular. A human Y-chromosone haplogroup associated with the Near East shows up in Italy, and Western Hunter Gatherers start to move across Europe replacing the Magdalenian cultures. I wonder if this event prompted people to think about the World around them differently in any way.
- dicroce 1y agoHoly shit, is this the squatting man? (strangely similar stick figure cave drawings dating to the same timeframe all over the world, and reproduced apparently with high energy plasma experiment). https://medium.com/@rajkumarrr/history-mystery-the-squatting-man-8b0314a161e https://medium.com/@rajkumarrr/history-mystery-the-squatting...
- allemagne 1y agoBaseless wild speculation time: I don't think the timing quite matches up, but the Neolithic Y-chromosome bottleneck is a little close to this. What if radiation from the sun actually sterilized something like 90% of neolithic men? Is that possible? This creates a selection pressure for men whose sperm just happens to be resistent to the sun's radiation to get with as many women as possible. So any groups that don't practice patriarchal polygyny are at a sudden and catastrophic disadvantage for not utilizing their men who are still fertile and get outcompeted in a generation. Thousands of years later we're still unwinding the social ramifications of this.
- DrFalkyn 1y agoMost other primate species, indeed most other mammalian species, polygyny is the norm
- allemagne 1y agoSure, but assuming humans are just "naturally" polygynous doesn't explain the actual observed range of human behavior or the Y-chromasome bottleneck I just mentioned.
- Terr_ 1y agoHow could that worldwide event affect just humans and not any of our close relatives?
- nonameiguess 1y agoI'd never even heard of this until today, but from looking it up, it seems speculated this happened nearer to the dawn of civilization, like 5000-7000 BCE at worst, nowhere near 12000 BCE.
- snowwrestler 1y agoHow would some sperm be resistant to radiation? Like what is the physical difference in that sperm that resists radiation? Your entire supposition rests on this being possible.