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Ideally, this is the logical progression that balances automakers desire for having some level of influence on the experience, while still giving drivers the ph

Ideally, this is the logical progression that balances automakers desire for having some level of influence on the experience, while still giving drivers the phone-driven CarPlay experience they prefer. Though if the balance isn't quite right, the automakers could gain "too much" control over it (and ruin it). It will be interesting to see what the real world experience is with it, though. Android Automotive, pay attention. GM, I'm looking at you.

echelon 1y ago
> phone-driven CarPlay experience they prefer. Oh god, no. Not only is this awful, it gives the big tech companies huge leverage over the automakers. It's another industry where they'll embrace-extend-extinguish. These companies will use smartphones as leverage to crush the automotive giants. It's another reason why we need antitrust enforcement to catch up with 30 years of being asleep at the wheel. The automotive companies should be in charge of their industry and their destinies. Tech companies shouldn't be ensnaring them. The phone giants already control how software is made and distributed (and they tax it 15-30%), insert themselves into digital payments and communications, place ads on your maps and navigation, etc. Soon they'll be taxing the car companies for integration, forcing the car companies to do what they want, and those car companies will pass that pain onto you, the consumer.
- neogodless 1y ago
  Is your argument that automakers should not support Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, and should instead each individually create their own software and digital interfaces?
  - bombcar 1y ago
    A dream world would define a standard for video/audio/controls interface with a vehicle/device and it would just "work" - like how connecting your TV over HDMI to your laptop just works (usually). Of course, that will never happen, because standards take centuries to develop and the cars need to be sold now NOW NOW.
    - echelon 1y ago
      A next best thing would be antitrust action from the DOJ and every other country telling these companies that they can't play in this sandbox too and continue bullying all the kids. As punishment for what they've been up to over the past few decades of running amok, the DOJ might tell these companies they have to open up app distribution, loosen up on the default payments/messaging/platform services, and allow third party vendors first class software and hardware access that is capable of car automation without needing Apple and Google to "help" (read: dictate and control).
    - MBCook 1y ago
      Honestly who else would use it but Apple and Google (Android)? There is no one else with enough market share for any automaker to even begin to think about. They already have what’s needed for those two so implementing a hypothetical standard only wastes time. The other stuff that could use that interface (video game consoles, etc) don’t need to work while driving or be integrated in any special way. So the existing USB-C or HDMI video standards would be fine since they’d just use the car as a pseudo-TV screen and maybe Internet connection.
      - int_19h 1y ago
        Some future competitor to either? The point is that open standards make it possible for one to appear.
- alphabettsy 1y ago
  I thought it might be satire, but you’re worried about the poor car companies? You’re right that phone giants have too much power, but car companies are already selling our data and injecting ads or preferred partners into the infotainment. It’s CarPlay that currently lets you avoid the abysmal and often subscription-based experiences they’re pushing. I would love to see more open systems that would allow third-parties or users to provide software for vehicles.
  - echelon 1y ago
    > the poor car companies? Google and Apple are the monopolies, here. Mega monopolies the world has never seen the likes of before. It's unreal how big and how much power they have. Apple and Google are practically God and more powerful than Christianity. > car companies are already selling our data It's wild that this is being thrown out as being even within the same order of magnitude as bad. Google and Apple are doing this 1000x worse. And for those that think Apple is a "privacy play", just look what they do to bend over to authoritarian regimes. They're still leveraging your data for advertising, and that play is bringing Apple more and more money year over year. The phone giants have way too much power. They control people trying to write software, people trying to run software. They control every payment, all the payment rails. They control the communication. The defaults. The search. 98% of your life flows through them. Your car is a pittance to that. We need to break up the phone companies or limit what they can do with the devices after they've sold them to you. Imagine if your car could tell you where you could drive. Or if businesses had to pay a tax to be visible from looking out your windshield. Or if they collected a percentage of everything you bought while you were out driving and shopping. Because that's phones. Google and Apple are our -- and everybody else's -- pimps and masters. You're nothing, I'm nothing. They're gods.
    - drcongo 1y ago
      Imagine if your car ejected you out the sunroof because you had green bubbles! Imagine if the tyres automatically deflated every time you pass a tyre shop! Imagine a million other made up things!
    - senordevnyc 1y ago
ramses0 1y ago
I think this is matching some of their Apple Watch co-branding, eg: you can't pick the Hermes watchface unless you also buy the Hermes strap: https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-hermes/ https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-hermes/ ...in all, I think it should make leaning on CarPlay more palatable for auto manufacturers. Exclusive "Ferrari Red" speedometers (aka: CSS-for-CarPlay), and there's the bland-ish basics that can be provided by Apple and used in any car.
pjc50 1y ago
This is really sad. Just as the original iPhone launch broke through carriers trying to monopolize control over phones (remember having to pay for ringtones?) and instead gradually transferred to a new monopolist, we welcome our phone monopolist against the car industry. Because, as you say, the carmakers will try to customize it, and make it worse, just as PC and printer manufacturers ship bloatware and Microsoft put Candy Crush in the start menu. I'm guessing that user customization is waay down the list here.
- neogodless 1y ago
  I agree in some ways, that phone software pushing itself into the dashboard is more worrisome. Just today I was skimming an Equinox EV review that said there's a weird interplay between the center screen and dashboard, where you'd have to reach over to the center to "push" certain modules into the dashboard. What I guess I don't agree with is that Apple has a monopoly on car interfaces. There's a similar duopoly here between Google and Android. Still I think the ideal might be... light integration with the automotive operating system, with that mostly controlled by the automaker, while the entertainment center is largely user-controlled, including options to use the phone-provided in-screen systems like CarPlay and Android Auto. It hasn't, historically, been a strength of automakers to make great integrated automotive operating systems, but it is somewhat of a differentiator for buyers so we can hope that competition improves things. If someone like Mazda continues to make a fast, fluid, intuitive operating system that also supports Android Auto and CarPlay, that's great. But... the auto sales model, I think, works against proper competition. Because there are other major factors that buyers use to make their decisions. While every GM electric car article has a few vocal "no carplay, no buy" comments, GM is still steadily increasing their EV market share. It'll never be fully... discrete. (Not like when it was more popular to rip the whole radio out of the dashboard and put your own Pioneer/JBL/etc system in there.)

echelon 1y ago

> phone-driven CarPlay experience they prefer. Oh god, no. Not only is this awful, it gives the big tech companies huge leverage over the automakers. It's another industry where they'll embrace-extend-extinguish. These companies will use smartphones as leverage to crush the automotive giants. It's another reason why we need antitrust enforcement to catch up with 30 years of being asleep at the wheel. The automotive companies should be in charge of their industry and their destinies. Tech companies shouldn't be ensnaring them. The phone giants already control how software is made and distributed (and they tax it 15-30%), insert themselves into digital payments and communications, place ads on your maps and navigation, etc. Soon they'll be taxing the car companies for integration, forcing the car companies to do what they want, and those car companies will pass that pain onto you, the consumer.

neogodless 1y ago
Is your argument that automakers should not support Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, and should instead each individually create their own software and digital interfaces?
- bombcar 1y ago
  A dream world would define a standard for video/audio/controls interface with a vehicle/device and it would just "work" - like how connecting your TV over HDMI to your laptop just works (usually). Of course, that will never happen, because standards take centuries to develop and the cars need to be sold now NOW NOW.
  - echelon 1y ago
    A next best thing would be antitrust action from the DOJ and every other country telling these companies that they can't play in this sandbox too and continue bullying all the kids. As punishment for what they've been up to over the past few decades of running amok, the DOJ might tell these companies they have to open up app distribution, loosen up on the default payments/messaging/platform services, and allow third party vendors first class software and hardware access that is capable of car automation without needing Apple and Google to "help" (read: dictate and control).
  - MBCook 1y ago
    Honestly who else would use it but Apple and Google (Android)? There is no one else with enough market share for any automaker to even begin to think about. They already have what’s needed for those two so implementing a hypothetical standard only wastes time. The other stuff that could use that interface (video game consoles, etc) don’t need to work while driving or be integrated in any special way. So the existing USB-C or HDMI video standards would be fine since they’d just use the car as a pseudo-TV screen and maybe Internet connection.
    - int_19h 1y ago
      Some future competitor to either? The point is that open standards make it possible for one to appear.
alphabettsy 1y ago
I thought it might be satire, but you’re worried about the poor car companies? You’re right that phone giants have too much power, but car companies are already selling our data and injecting ads or preferred partners into the infotainment. It’s CarPlay that currently lets you avoid the abysmal and often subscription-based experiences they’re pushing. I would love to see more open systems that would allow third-parties or users to provide software for vehicles.
- echelon 1y ago
  > the poor car companies? Google and Apple are the monopolies, here. Mega monopolies the world has never seen the likes of before. It's unreal how big and how much power they have. Apple and Google are practically God and more powerful than Christianity. > car companies are already selling our data It's wild that this is being thrown out as being even within the same order of magnitude as bad. Google and Apple are doing this 1000x worse. And for those that think Apple is a "privacy play", just look what they do to bend over to authoritarian regimes. They're still leveraging your data for advertising, and that play is bringing Apple more and more money year over year. The phone giants have way too much power. They control people trying to write software, people trying to run software. They control every payment, all the payment rails. They control the communication. The defaults. The search. 98% of your life flows through them. Your car is a pittance to that. We need to break up the phone companies or limit what they can do with the devices after they've sold them to you. Imagine if your car could tell you where you could drive. Or if businesses had to pay a tax to be visible from looking out your windshield. Or if they collected a percentage of everything you bought while you were out driving and shopping. Because that's phones. Google and Apple are our -- and everybody else's -- pimps and masters. You're nothing, I'm nothing. They're gods.
  - drcongo 1y ago
    Imagine if your car ejected you out the sunroof because you had green bubbles! Imagine if the tyres automatically deflated every time you pass a tyre shop! Imagine a million other made up things!
  - senordevnyc 1y ago

ramses0 1y ago

I think this is matching some of their Apple Watch co-branding, eg: you can't pick the Hermes watchface unless you also buy the Hermes strap: https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-hermes/ https://www.apple.com/apple-watch-hermes/ ...in all, I think it should make leaning on CarPlay more palatable for auto manufacturers. Exclusive "Ferrari Red" speedometers (aka: CSS-for-CarPlay), and there's the bland-ish basics that can be provided by Apple and used in any car.

pjc50 1y ago

This is really sad. Just as the original iPhone launch broke through carriers trying to monopolize control over phones (remember having to pay for ringtones?) and instead gradually transferred to a new monopolist, we welcome our phone monopolist against the car industry. Because, as you say, the carmakers will try to customize it, and make it worse, just as PC and printer manufacturers ship bloatware and Microsoft put Candy Crush in the start menu. I'm guessing that user customization is waay down the list here.

neogodless 1y ago
I agree in some ways, that phone software pushing itself into the dashboard is more worrisome. Just today I was skimming an Equinox EV review that said there's a weird interplay between the center screen and dashboard, where you'd have to reach over to the center to "push" certain modules into the dashboard. What I guess I don't agree with is that Apple has a monopoly on car interfaces. There's a similar duopoly here between Google and Android. Still I think the ideal might be... light integration with the automotive operating system, with that mostly controlled by the automaker, while the entertainment center is largely user-controlled, including options to use the phone-provided in-screen systems like CarPlay and Android Auto. It hasn't, historically, been a strength of automakers to make great integrated automotive operating systems, but it is somewhat of a differentiator for buyers so we can hope that competition improves things. If someone like Mazda continues to make a fast, fluid, intuitive operating system that also supports Android Auto and CarPlay, that's great. But... the auto sales model, I think, works against proper competition. Because there are other major factors that buyers use to make their decisions. While every GM electric car article has a few vocal "no carplay, no buy" comments, GM is still steadily increasing their EV market share. It'll never be fully... discrete. (Not like when it was more popular to rip the whole radio out of the dashboard and put your own Pioneer/JBL/etc system in there.)