4 ms·

It's not a clusterfuck. The librarian of congress move was a deliberate hostile attempt attempt by the executive to take control over the legislative branch. Ju

It's not a clusterfuck. The librarian of congress move was a deliberate hostile attempt attempt by the executive to take control over the legislative branch. Just like AFL vs John Roberts is a hostile attempt to take over the judicial. It's an concerted attempted authoritarian takeover through bureaucratic methods. When they exhaust this, you'll see them frustrated and declare states of emergencies. The founders wrote about this in the Federalist Papers, people like this have always existed.

pbhjpbhj 1y ago
"It's not a clustefuck" ... proceeds to describe a clusterfuck ... What was your intention here?
- throwaway5752 1y ago
  A clusterfuck describes chaos and disorganization. This is just a deliberate attack, it is being executed well. It is just malicious.
  - postalrat 1y ago
    People will prefer calling it both malicious and disorganized. Well executed sounds too positive.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
      Calling it well-executed is pragmatic. There's no reason to avoid positive-sounding things if they're true, especially not because it's positive. If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
  - Xplan 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - Onawa 1y ago
      Ahh yes, how ironic that Democrats are complaining about a billionaire with myriad conflicts of interest interfering in government funding... Very comparable to unelected bureaucrats implementing regulations that on average were meant to try and protect the general public.
    - apercu 1y ago
      >"effectively gutting the least efficient parts of the government (my take, at least from 50,000 view)" Based on what? See, I think of myself as a highly informed, curious person that is a voracious reader and yet I absolutely know I have zero basis to make such a determination. So what data do you have that I don't?
      - jslaby 1y ago
        Efficiency is at an all time high now. We can see one air traffic controller handling a workload that would have required ten or more.
        apercu 1y ago
        Lol, that's quite the example using recent history.
    - AftHurrahWinch 1y ago
      That is a factually inaccurate description of the role of federal agencies under Chevron deference. Chevron deference was a legal doctrine that required courts to defer to reasonable agency interpretations of ambiguous statutes, not a mechanism that allowed career civil servants to unilaterally create criminal laws. Federal agencies could only issue regulations within the authority explicitly delegated by Congress, and these regulations were subject to judicial review, public notice-and-comment periods, and Congressional oversight.
    - 1y ago
- fooblaster 1y ago
  A clusterfuck generally implies a mishandled situation. The author is saying that there was intention behind the actions and that this outcome was the goal.
  - pbhjpbhj 1y ago
    Ah, _to me_ a clusterfuck is just a complex of terrible circumstances, it can be caused intentionally. Thanks for the clarification.
- mystraline 1y ago
  A clusterfuck us usually no real plan, and everyone deciding on their own, causing chaos. No, what we are seeing is a coup. The USA has exhausted in causing coups in other parts of the world. Now, we are in a coup caused by the USA government. The executive branch is captured. The courts are captured. Most of Congress is captured. Those left over whinge about 'illegal' and basically send out more emails for more donations. And throw in a few stump speeches.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
    >the exec, the courts, and a majority of congress I genuinely don't understand how this can be a coup when all three branches agree. I mean sure, we are well outside the strict scope of Constitution, but that ship left generations ago.
    - daveguy 1y ago
      It won't be a coup if they abide by the results of the 2026 election. Last time an election didn't go their way, they did not abide by the results.
      - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
        What are you saying? It's all a big nothing burger until 2026? And then maybe it's still nothing?
        daveguy 1y ago
        Nope. That's not at all what I'm saying. It's just not officially a coup until they refuse to cede power. We know they are very capable of it (already tried it once). In the meantime they are sowing chaos and destroying institutions.
      - hackyhacky 1y ago
        It's a coup now because they are seizing power that has not been granted to them. Firing the head of the CBFP, installing a non-approved Librarian of Congress, bypassing agency regulations such as IRS privacy laws, etc. That's all illegal. It's a coup by the President against the rest of the government.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
fsckboy 1y ago
thanks for the pointer. I looked up AFL vs John Roberts, and the lawsuit seems straightforward and has a reasonable basis. https://reason.com/volokh/2025/05/04/america-first-legal-foundation-v-chief-justice-john-roberts/ https://reason.com/volokh/2025/05/04/america-first-legal-fou... "The suit was prompted by the refusal of the Judicial Conference and Administrative Office to respond to AFLF's FOIA requests for copies of communication with the offices of Senator Sheldon Whitehouse and Representative Hank Johnson, two legislators who have worked overtime to stir up ethical allegations against sitting Supreme Court justices. The Judicial Conference and Administrative Office rebuffed the requests on the grounds that each are exempt from FOIA." "The basis for AFLF's suit is that the Judicial Conference and Administrative Office are not part of the judiciary, but are instead executive branch agencies subject to FOIA. According to AFLF, neither entity is a "court," and insofar as each has other responsibilities, including the promulgation of rules governing federal courts and responding to Congressional inquiries, each is an "agency" under FOIA."
- throwaway5752 1y ago
  Someone with a hacker mindset and domain knowledge might want to understand the subtext of the case, which is more important. I don't think I'll convince you otherwise, but those interested can read this counterpoint to the Reason link with more background and detail: https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/trump-ally-stephen-miller-sues-john-roberts-control-courts/ https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/trump-ally-steph...
  - fsckboy 1y ago
    there was no information at your link that I didn't glean from the original article. I'm not an idiot, I can conceptualize the current-day-political divide wrt the issue, the same divide that has been in a tug of war my entire life, and also that the court may itself be influenced by that, but it's still an interesting issue, as are all issue wrt separation of powers. I was raised in a very left wing family where pulling on the rope was required, it's in my blood.

pbhjpbhj 1y ago

"It's not a clustefuck" ... proceeds to describe a clusterfuck ... What was your intention here?

throwaway5752 1y ago
A clusterfuck describes chaos and disorganization. This is just a deliberate attack, it is being executed well. It is just malicious.
- postalrat 1y ago
  People will prefer calling it both malicious and disorganized. Well executed sounds too positive.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
    Calling it well-executed is pragmatic. There's no reason to avoid positive-sounding things if they're true, especially not because it's positive. If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
- Xplan 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - Onawa 1y ago
    Ahh yes, how ironic that Democrats are complaining about a billionaire with myriad conflicts of interest interfering in government funding... Very comparable to unelected bureaucrats implementing regulations that on average were meant to try and protect the general public.
  - apercu 1y ago
    >"effectively gutting the least efficient parts of the government (my take, at least from 50,000 view)" Based on what? See, I think of myself as a highly informed, curious person that is a voracious reader and yet I absolutely know I have zero basis to make such a determination. So what data do you have that I don't?
    - jslaby 1y ago
      Efficiency is at an all time high now. We can see one air traffic controller handling a workload that would have required ten or more.
      - apercu 1y ago
        Lol, that's quite the example using recent history.
  - AftHurrahWinch 1y ago
    That is a factually inaccurate description of the role of federal agencies under Chevron deference. Chevron deference was a legal doctrine that required courts to defer to reasonable agency interpretations of ambiguous statutes, not a mechanism that allowed career civil servants to unilaterally create criminal laws. Federal agencies could only issue regulations within the authority explicitly delegated by Congress, and these regulations were subject to judicial review, public notice-and-comment periods, and Congressional oversight.
  - 1y ago
fooblaster 1y ago
A clusterfuck generally implies a mishandled situation. The author is saying that there was intention behind the actions and that this outcome was the goal.
- pbhjpbhj 1y ago
  Ah, _to me_ a clusterfuck is just a complex of terrible circumstances, it can be caused intentionally. Thanks for the clarification.
mystraline 1y ago
A clusterfuck us usually no real plan, and everyone deciding on their own, causing chaos. No, what we are seeing is a coup. The USA has exhausted in causing coups in other parts of the world. Now, we are in a coup caused by the USA government. The executive branch is captured. The courts are captured. Most of Congress is captured. Those left over whinge about 'illegal' and basically send out more emails for more donations. And throw in a few stump speeches.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  >the exec, the courts, and a majority of congress I genuinely don't understand how this can be a coup when all three branches agree. I mean sure, we are well outside the strict scope of Constitution, but that ship left generations ago.
  - daveguy 1y ago
    It won't be a coup if they abide by the results of the 2026 election. Last time an election didn't go their way, they did not abide by the results.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
      What are you saying? It's all a big nothing burger until 2026? And then maybe it's still nothing?
      - daveguy 1y ago
        Nope. That's not at all what I'm saying. It's just not officially a coup until they refuse to cede power. We know they are very capable of it (already tried it once). In the meantime they are sowing chaos and destroying institutions.
    - hackyhacky 1y ago
      It's a coup now because they are seizing power that has not been granted to them. Firing the head of the CBFP, installing a non-approved Librarian of Congress, bypassing agency regulations such as IRS privacy laws, etc. That's all illegal. It's a coup by the President against the rest of the government.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

fsckboy 1y ago

thanks for the pointer. I looked up AFL vs John Roberts, and the lawsuit seems straightforward and has a reasonable basis. https://reason.com/volokh/2025/05/04/america-first-legal-foundation-v-chief-justice-john-roberts/ https://reason.com/volokh/2025/05/04/america-first-legal-fou... "The suit was prompted by the refusal of the Judicial Conference and Administrative Office to respond to AFLF's FOIA requests for copies of communication with the offices of Senator Sheldon Whitehouse and Representative Hank Johnson, two legislators who have worked overtime to stir up ethical allegations against sitting Supreme Court justices. The Judicial Conference and Administrative Office rebuffed the requests on the grounds that each are exempt from FOIA." "The basis for AFLF's suit is that the Judicial Conference and Administrative Office are not part of the judiciary, but are instead executive branch agencies subject to FOIA. According to AFLF, neither entity is a "court," and insofar as each has other responsibilities, including the promulgation of rules governing federal courts and responding to Congressional inquiries, each is an "agency" under FOIA."

throwaway5752 1y ago
Someone with a hacker mindset and domain knowledge might want to understand the subtext of the case, which is more important. I don't think I'll convince you otherwise, but those interested can read this counterpoint to the Reason link with more background and detail: https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/trump-ally-stephen-miller-sues-john-roberts-control-courts/ https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/trump-ally-steph...
- fsckboy 1y ago
  there was no information at your link that I didn't glean from the original article. I'm not an idiot, I can conceptualize the current-day-political divide wrt the issue, the same divide that has been in a tug of war my entire life, and also that the court may itself be influenced by that, but it's still an interesting issue, as are all issue wrt separation of powers. I was raised in a very left wing family where pulling on the rope was required, it's in my blood.