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Upstream requested that the SUSE team take a look at it. It seems that development is understaffed and the upstream may not have the expertise to maintain it pr

by jzb 1y ago

Upstream requested that the SUSE team take a look at it. It seems that development is understaffed and the upstream may not have the expertise to maintain it properly. Which, if true, is sad -- I know that tmux and others exist, but a lot of people have used Screen for many many years. It sucks when a tool bitrots.

marcosdumay 1y ago
Looks like a tech-debt ridden large piece of software that new developers just can't understand. If that's the case, it's not really about it being "understaffed". Instead, it's doomed to rot until it's replaced of rewritten. There's no scenario where more maintainers will help, except for marginally delaying it. The good news is that there are almost perfect replacements out there, and most of them are leaner.
- megous 1y ago
  It's not large: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/screen.git/tree/src https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/screen.git/tree/src A few 2kLOC files and the rest is rather small.
- doctoboggan 1y ago
  What are the replacement tools I should be looking at as a casual user of screen?
  - nosrepa 1y ago
    Tmux
    - jmholla 1y ago
      If there was a way to get rid of Tmux's persistent status bar, I'd be happy to switch over. But last time I checked, you can't, and I want that real estate.
      - arp242 1y ago
        Add "set -g status" to your tmux.conf. You can even bind it to a key to toggle if you want.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    If you want screen-but-better: tmux. If you want a rethinking of the idea: zellij. I prefer the latter. It matches my mental model of such things, and lots of people talk about enjoying switching to it. Many others happily use the former daily.
    - bombcar 1y ago
      tmux is great but it's way too powerful for the 90% use case of screen - which is "let this process continue to run even if I disconnect or logout". I've had some luck with mosh, but that also seems kind of moribund. https://mosh.org https://mosh.org For my use case it's fine.
      - kstrauser 1y ago
        Along the lines of Mosh, I've migrated from it to Eternal Terminal (ET): https://eternalterminal.dev https://eternalterminal.dev
      - int_19h 1y ago
        If that is literally the only thing that you need, dtach is the ticket.
      - arp242 1y ago
        > tmux is great but it's way too powerful for the 90% use case of screen - which is "let this process continue to run even if I disconnect or logout". I guess, but does it really get in the way? I use tmux only for scrollback and having multiple "tabs" and sessions, and not much else. But the more advanced stuff like splits and whatnot never really get in my way.
      - db48x 1y ago
        Even screen is too powerful for that use case. Just use nohup or dtach instead.
      - lupusreal 1y ago
        Screen has some obscure functionality that tmux doesn't have. Handling serial port connections, whereas with tmux AFAIK you'd have to use minicom.
- narag 1y ago
  Instead, it's doomed to rot until it's replaced of rewritten. I've seen how that mindset has ruined several companies. Not saying that you're wrong about that particular program that is, after all, free software replaced by other free software parts. But for business, it's lethal. Joel Spolsky had a nice piece about it: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-... That and Fire and Motion seem to be forgotten wisdom already: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-motion/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-motion/ I feel old :-)

by jzb 1y ago

marcosdumay 1y ago

Looks like a tech-debt ridden large piece of software that new developers just can't understand. If that's the case, it's not really about it being "understaffed". Instead, it's doomed to rot until it's replaced of rewritten. There's no scenario where more maintainers will help, except for marginally delaying it. The good news is that there are almost perfect replacements out there, and most of them are leaner.

megous 1y ago
It's not large: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/screen.git/tree/src https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/screen.git/tree/src A few 2kLOC files and the rest is rather small.
doctoboggan 1y ago
What are the replacement tools I should be looking at as a casual user of screen?
- nosrepa 1y ago
  Tmux
  - jmholla 1y ago
    If there was a way to get rid of Tmux's persistent status bar, I'd be happy to switch over. But last time I checked, you can't, and I want that real estate.
    - arp242 1y ago
      Add "set -g status" to your tmux.conf. You can even bind it to a key to toggle if you want.
- kstrauser 1y ago
  If you want screen-but-better: tmux. If you want a rethinking of the idea: zellij. I prefer the latter. It matches my mental model of such things, and lots of people talk about enjoying switching to it. Many others happily use the former daily.
  - bombcar 1y ago
    tmux is great but it's way too powerful for the 90% use case of screen - which is "let this process continue to run even if I disconnect or logout". I've had some luck with mosh, but that also seems kind of moribund. https://mosh.org https://mosh.org For my use case it's fine.
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      Along the lines of Mosh, I've migrated from it to Eternal Terminal (ET): https://eternalterminal.dev https://eternalterminal.dev
    - int_19h 1y ago
      If that is literally the only thing that you need, dtach is the ticket.
    - arp242 1y ago
      > tmux is great but it's way too powerful for the 90% use case of screen - which is "let this process continue to run even if I disconnect or logout". I guess, but does it really get in the way? I use tmux only for scrollback and having multiple "tabs" and sessions, and not much else. But the more advanced stuff like splits and whatnot never really get in my way.
    - db48x 1y ago
      Even screen is too powerful for that use case. Just use nohup or dtach instead.
    - lupusreal 1y ago
      Screen has some obscure functionality that tmux doesn't have. Handling serial port connections, whereas with tmux AFAIK you'd have to use minicom.
narag 1y ago
Instead, it's doomed to rot until it's replaced of rewritten. I've seen how that mindset has ruined several companies. Not saying that you're wrong about that particular program that is, after all, free software replaced by other free software parts. But for business, it's lethal. Joel Spolsky had a nice piece about it: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-... That and Fire and Motion seem to be forgotten wisdom already: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-motion/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-motion/ I feel old :-)