5 ms·

I would say that using GitHub only for a public git repository is pretty good value. It is free and robust, and there is not much bad Microsoft can do to you.

by GuB-42 1y ago

I would say that using GitHub only for a public git repository is pretty good value. It is free and robust, and there is not much bad Microsoft can do to you. Because it is standard git, there is no lockdown. If they make a decision you don't like, migrating is just a git clone. As for the "training copilot" part, it is public, it doesn't change anything that Microsoft hosts the project on their own servers, they can just get the source like anyone else, they probably already do. Why not Codeberg? I don't know, maybe bandwidth, but if that's standard git, making a mirror on Codeberg should be trivial. That's why git is awesome. The central repository is just a convention. Technically, there is no difference between the original and the clone. You don't even need to be online to collaborate, as long as you have a way to exchange files.

immibis 1y ago
I am banned from GitHub because I didn't want to give them my phone number. They ignored a legally binding GDPR request to delete all my data. I haven't got around to suing them yet. Recently I also got "rate limited" after opening about three web pages. Microsoft can do something to you, and that is to arbitrarily deny you access after you've built a dependence on it, and then make you jump through hoops to get access back.
- LadyCailin 1y ago
  This is kind of a weird hill to die on, but you’re well within your rights, so you do you. However, it is clearly not correct to say that you were banned from GitHub. It’s like saying “I was banned from Google because I refuse to use computing devices.” Not really a ban, just self flagellation, which, again, whatever works for you.
  - immibis 1y ago
    Give me your social security number or you may not reply to my comments. If you don't give me your social security number, choosing instead to die on this weird hill, it's not correct to say you're banned - you're merely self-flagellating.
    - LadyCailin 1y ago
      A phone number given to a generally reputable company is hardly equivalent to giving a rando your social security number. I mean, obviously you disagree with them being generally reputable, but you must realize that’s not a broad opinion, and they are certainly better at preventing data breaches than the average company that stores phone numbers. Sincerely though, I hope you get your GDPR request sorted.
      - fsflover 1y ago
        > generally reputable company Are you talking about Microsoft here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft#Controversies
        LadyCailin 1y ago
        Hence the qualifier “generally”. I’m not saying they’re above reproach, but I am saying that companies that care far less about data security already have my phone number, such as most/all of my utilities - including my phone company. And those aren’t realistically optional.
        fsflover 1y ago
        > companies that care far less about data security already have my phone number ... including my phone company. Far less than these? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40592789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40592789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12305598 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12305598 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Privacy_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Privacy... This is unlikely.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        The bar is a lot lower than you think.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- alabastervlog 1y ago
  > Recently I also got "rate limited" after opening about three web pages. People who haven’t used it logged out recently may be surprised to find that they have, for some time, made the site effectively unusable without an account. Doing one search and clicking a couple results gets you temporarily blocked. It’s effectively an account-required website now.
  - hedora 1y ago
    Thanks. I didn’t realize that. Migrating repos tonight.
  - birdman3131 1y ago
    I have never noticed that and am rarely logged in.
    - alabastervlog 1y ago
      Weird. Maybe it just hates my last two ISPs (Google Fiber, Frontier). The usual way I notice I'm not logged in is by getting blocked after interacting with ~3 different parts of the site within a minute. If I search, click a single repo, and stay in that repo without using search, it seems to go OK, but if I interact with search and then a couple repos, or search again, temp-banned.
      - aabbcc1241 1y ago
        I made a search index for github repo [1] because it takes quite some time for github to load the repositories page (which is the page to allow searching), And sometimes even using the exact repo name in Google search, I cannot see the corresponding (non-popular) repo. [1] https://res-index.hkit.cc https://res-index.hkit.cc
  - fu-hn 1y ago
    They no longer allow sorting by number of stars in the search without being logged in either.
- baobun 1y ago
  At least you had the choice. Many potential contributors live in countries to which GitHub does not support SMS verification but still requires it. So there's a second tier of effectively blocked countries besides the officially sanctioned ones.
- extraduder_ire 1y ago
  When did they ask you for a phone number? Last github account I set up back at the end of February didn't ask for one and does the mandatory 2fa step using a code sent via email. This might be a country-dependant thing.
  - hedora 1y ago
    They nagged me for a year for a phone number, threatening lockout. I finally gave in, so they almost immediately started nagging me to disable SMS 2FA because it is insecure.
- glandium 1y ago
  You don't need a Github account to `git clone https://github.com/some/repo https://github.com/some/repo`
nine_k 1y ago
Question: could I offer a patch without having a GitHub account? Definitely I can access the source code. The review tools are not on GitHub. But is it even possible to host my proposed changes elsewhere, not on GitHub? I suppose that the answer is negative, but surprises happen. This is a relatively theoretical question, but it explores the "what bad Microsoft can do to you" avenue: it can close your GitHub account, likely seriously hampering your ability to contribute.
- steveklabnik 1y ago
  This is my understanding from reading the docs just now: You submit patches to Phabricator, not to GitHub. https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/contributing/contribution_quickref.html https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/contributing/contrib... > To submit a patch for review, we use a tool called moz-phab. That does mean you need an account on Phabricator, but not on GitHub https://moz-conduit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/phabricator-user.html https://moz-conduit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/phabricator-use...
- nicoburns 1y ago
  > But is it even possible to host my proposed changes elsewhere, not on GitHub? I suppose that the answer is negative, but surprises happen. Yes, in fact it is only possible to submit patches through Phabricator. You cannot submit patches through Github.

by GuB-42 1y ago

immibis 1y ago

I am banned from GitHub because I didn't want to give them my phone number. They ignored a legally binding GDPR request to delete all my data. I haven't got around to suing them yet. Recently I also got "rate limited" after opening about three web pages. Microsoft can do something to you, and that is to arbitrarily deny you access after you've built a dependence on it, and then make you jump through hoops to get access back.

LadyCailin 1y ago
This is kind of a weird hill to die on, but you’re well within your rights, so you do you. However, it is clearly not correct to say that you were banned from GitHub. It’s like saying “I was banned from Google because I refuse to use computing devices.” Not really a ban, just self flagellation, which, again, whatever works for you.
- immibis 1y ago
  Give me your social security number or you may not reply to my comments. If you don't give me your social security number, choosing instead to die on this weird hill, it's not correct to say you're banned - you're merely self-flagellating.
  - LadyCailin 1y ago
    A phone number given to a generally reputable company is hardly equivalent to giving a rando your social security number. I mean, obviously you disagree with them being generally reputable, but you must realize that’s not a broad opinion, and they are certainly better at preventing data breaches than the average company that stores phone numbers. Sincerely though, I hope you get your GDPR request sorted.
    - fsflover 1y ago
      > generally reputable company Are you talking about Microsoft here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft#Controversies
      - LadyCailin 1y ago
        Hence the qualifier “generally”. I’m not saying they’re above reproach, but I am saying that companies that care far less about data security already have my phone number, such as most/all of my utilities - including my phone company. And those aren’t realistically optional.
        fsflover 1y ago
        > companies that care far less about data security already have my phone number ... including my phone company. Far less than these? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40592789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40592789 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12305598 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12305598 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Privacy_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Privacy... This is unlikely.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        The bar is a lot lower than you think.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
alabastervlog 1y ago
> Recently I also got "rate limited" after opening about three web pages. People who haven’t used it logged out recently may be surprised to find that they have, for some time, made the site effectively unusable without an account. Doing one search and clicking a couple results gets you temporarily blocked. It’s effectively an account-required website now.
- hedora 1y ago
  Thanks. I didn’t realize that. Migrating repos tonight.
- birdman3131 1y ago
  I have never noticed that and am rarely logged in.
  - alabastervlog 1y ago
    Weird. Maybe it just hates my last two ISPs (Google Fiber, Frontier). The usual way I notice I'm not logged in is by getting blocked after interacting with ~3 different parts of the site within a minute. If I search, click a single repo, and stay in that repo without using search, it seems to go OK, but if I interact with search and then a couple repos, or search again, temp-banned.
    - aabbcc1241 1y ago
      I made a search index for github repo [1] because it takes quite some time for github to load the repositories page (which is the page to allow searching), And sometimes even using the exact repo name in Google search, I cannot see the corresponding (non-popular) repo. [1] https://res-index.hkit.cc https://res-index.hkit.cc
- fu-hn 1y ago
  They no longer allow sorting by number of stars in the search without being logged in either.
baobun 1y ago
At least you had the choice. Many potential contributors live in countries to which GitHub does not support SMS verification but still requires it. So there's a second tier of effectively blocked countries besides the officially sanctioned ones.
extraduder_ire 1y ago
When did they ask you for a phone number? Last github account I set up back at the end of February didn't ask for one and does the mandatory 2fa step using a code sent via email. This might be a country-dependant thing.
- hedora 1y ago
  They nagged me for a year for a phone number, threatening lockout. I finally gave in, so they almost immediately started nagging me to disable SMS 2FA because it is insecure.
glandium 1y ago
You don't need a Github account to `git clone https://github.com/some/repo https://github.com/some/repo`

nine_k 1y ago

Question: could I offer a patch without having a GitHub account? Definitely I can access the source code. The review tools are not on GitHub. But is it even possible to host my proposed changes elsewhere, not on GitHub? I suppose that the answer is negative, but surprises happen. This is a relatively theoretical question, but it explores the "what bad Microsoft can do to you" avenue: it can close your GitHub account, likely seriously hampering your ability to contribute.

steveklabnik 1y ago
This is my understanding from reading the docs just now: You submit patches to Phabricator, not to GitHub. https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/contributing/contribution_quickref.html https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/contributing/contrib... > To submit a patch for review, we use a tool called moz-phab. That does mean you need an account on Phabricator, but not on GitHub https://moz-conduit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/phabricator-user.html https://moz-conduit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/phabricator-use...
nicoburns 1y ago
> But is it even possible to host my proposed changes elsewhere, not on GitHub? I suppose that the answer is negative, but surprises happen. Yes, in fact it is only possible to submit patches through Phabricator. You cannot submit patches through Github.