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>Six of the seven companies use algorithms with opaque rules to assign jobs and determine wages, meaning that workers do not know how much they will be paid unt

>Six of the seven companies use algorithms with opaque rules to assign jobs and determine wages, meaning that workers do not know how much they will be paid until after completing the job. This seems like the low hanging fruit that should be resolved immediately. Though Uber does show how much someone will make before taking a ride, I'm not sure how one would legislate forcing a user to only accept a ride if it's profitable for them after taking gas+depreciation of the vehicle into account. And if someone wants to trade life of the vehicle for income now (pretty much no one takes their car to it's manufactured limit, it's usually age that kills it), shouldn't we allow that?

TuringNYC 1y ago
>> Though Uber does show how much someone will make before taking a ride I think the problem was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_mileage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_mileage I took an Uber from Newark Airport an hour south to Princeton NJ -- the Uber driver, which being compensated nicely for that ride, now has to get back an hour north, and no rides are "guaranteed" for this trip, so they go back uncompensated. Traditional Taxi services built in the cost of that return trip, but Uber does not from what I can see.
- harvey9 1y ago
  If no driver accepts the job (as there's a good chance of making a loss), does Uber try offering a higher fare?
  - TuringNYC 1y ago
    >> If no driver accepts the job (as there's a good chance of making a loss), does Uber try offering a higher fare? Yes, but one of the problems with these gig platforms is that workers do not consider all the costs and end up seeing the top line instead of bottom line. Many people are unaware of hidden costs such as mileage, wear-and-tear, insurance impacts, etc. Further, some gig workers are so desperate for money that the top line is the only thing that matters at the moment, I empathize with this and it hurts me to think so many fellow citizens get into this spot.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    I wonder if this is why it takes 4+ "finding new driver" because when the driver that was assigned while "finishing current ride" finally gets a chance to see where they are being sent decides to reject the ride. The fact that the driver is being assigned a ride without any confirmation as they are currently driving and not able to check the details, I'm left twiddling my thumbs as the platform's "negotiations" with drivers for my destination just looks like incompetence from my vantage point.
    - charlieyu1 1y ago
      I'm not sure if drivers can take new orders while driving. Happened to me once, the uber comes with a passenger from the previous trip who left there.
      - dylan604 1y ago
        it happens all of the time. the app pops up a notification to the driver that a new ride has been assigned, and they can click to dismiss the notification. i can't think of the last ride i was in that the next ride was not assigned before my ride was completed
SoftTalker 1y ago
If drivers are supposed to be contractors the pricing should work opposite to the way it does. Drivers should bid on rides, the same way a contractor bids on a job. Uber then selects the low bid and computes the price for the customer. In that case however, drivers would need to have the tools to accurately estimate their costs, such as knowing the time and mileage from where they are to where the rider is and then to where the rider wants to go, just as a contractor needs to know how much lumber he'll need before he bids on framing an addition to a house. And if he's wrong, he generally needs to eat the cost of his mistake.
- Ekaros 1y ago
  Or just make app show list of bids. Which user can then sort on some criteria. Like inserting their estimation of time and distance. This would allow drivers to set fees on things like base fare or cancelation fee. And make clear list of penalties like cleaning the car and damages. And possibly any suitable small print legalese too.
  - rat9988 1y ago
    Wouldn't work. I guess a driver expects different prices depending on destination, as some are more profitable than others.
    - SoftTalker 1y ago
      Right, so he could do what a contractor does when he's asked to bid on a job he doesn't really want. Submit a very high bid, so that if it's accepted at least it's worth his time. None of this happens or will happen, which means that Uber drivers are (or should be) employees not contractors.
- thrance 1y ago
  I don't see how that would improve the worker's lives in any way, shape or form. To me, this feels like insane Gilded Age practices. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can find this exact same scene of desperate workers bidding on how little they'd take to do a job in Bioshock, as a jab against Objectivism.
itake 1y ago
How would Uber or anyone know how long it would take to go between two locations?
- dylan604 1y ago
  The same way you or I would by entering the starting address and destination address and getting a route from any of the plethora of options available for this very task
  - itake 1y ago
    still confused... if there is a traffic accident, flood, or weather event. how would this work? the driver needs to eat all the risk for common events that computers can't model?

TuringNYC 1y ago

>> Though Uber does show how much someone will make before taking a ride I think the problem was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_mileage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_mileage I took an Uber from Newark Airport an hour south to Princeton NJ -- the Uber driver, which being compensated nicely for that ride, now has to get back an hour north, and no rides are "guaranteed" for this trip, so they go back uncompensated. Traditional Taxi services built in the cost of that return trip, but Uber does not from what I can see.

harvey9 1y ago
If no driver accepts the job (as there's a good chance of making a loss), does Uber try offering a higher fare?
- TuringNYC 1y ago
  >> If no driver accepts the job (as there's a good chance of making a loss), does Uber try offering a higher fare? Yes, but one of the problems with these gig platforms is that workers do not consider all the costs and end up seeing the top line instead of bottom line. Many people are unaware of hidden costs such as mileage, wear-and-tear, insurance impacts, etc. Further, some gig workers are so desperate for money that the top line is the only thing that matters at the moment, I empathize with this and it hurts me to think so many fellow citizens get into this spot.
- dylan604 1y ago
  I wonder if this is why it takes 4+ "finding new driver" because when the driver that was assigned while "finishing current ride" finally gets a chance to see where they are being sent decides to reject the ride. The fact that the driver is being assigned a ride without any confirmation as they are currently driving and not able to check the details, I'm left twiddling my thumbs as the platform's "negotiations" with drivers for my destination just looks like incompetence from my vantage point.
  - charlieyu1 1y ago
    I'm not sure if drivers can take new orders while driving. Happened to me once, the uber comes with a passenger from the previous trip who left there.
    - dylan604 1y ago
      it happens all of the time. the app pops up a notification to the driver that a new ride has been assigned, and they can click to dismiss the notification. i can't think of the last ride i was in that the next ride was not assigned before my ride was completed

SoftTalker 1y ago

If drivers are supposed to be contractors the pricing should work opposite to the way it does. Drivers should bid on rides, the same way a contractor bids on a job. Uber then selects the low bid and computes the price for the customer. In that case however, drivers would need to have the tools to accurately estimate their costs, such as knowing the time and mileage from where they are to where the rider is and then to where the rider wants to go, just as a contractor needs to know how much lumber he'll need before he bids on framing an addition to a house. And if he's wrong, he generally needs to eat the cost of his mistake.

Ekaros 1y ago
Or just make app show list of bids. Which user can then sort on some criteria. Like inserting their estimation of time and distance. This would allow drivers to set fees on things like base fare or cancelation fee. And make clear list of penalties like cleaning the car and damages. And possibly any suitable small print legalese too.
- rat9988 1y ago
  Wouldn't work. I guess a driver expects different prices depending on destination, as some are more profitable than others.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    Right, so he could do what a contractor does when he's asked to bid on a job he doesn't really want. Submit a very high bid, so that if it's accepted at least it's worth his time. None of this happens or will happen, which means that Uber drivers are (or should be) employees not contractors.
thrance 1y ago
I don't see how that would improve the worker's lives in any way, shape or form. To me, this feels like insane Gilded Age practices. In fact, I'm pretty sure you can find this exact same scene of desperate workers bidding on how little they'd take to do a job in Bioshock, as a jab against Objectivism.

itake 1y ago

How would Uber or anyone know how long it would take to go between two locations?

dylan604 1y ago
The same way you or I would by entering the starting address and destination address and getting a route from any of the plethora of options available for this very task
- itake 1y ago
  still confused... if there is a traffic accident, flood, or weather event. how would this work? the driver needs to eat all the risk for common events that computers can't model?