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By comparison I was making $75k in the Bay Area as an entry level software engineer with no overtime and only because I was afraid of negotiating higher (I thin

By comparison I was making $75k in the Bay Area as an entry level software engineer with no overtime and only because I was afraid of negotiating higher (I think 85-90 was on the table). This isn’t to take anything away from your son’s achievements and congrats to him and you all should of course be proud of his accomplishments. I think though it’s useful to compare and contrast blue collar and white collar wages in terms of effort per dollar earned as well when discussing options to kids. There’s nothing wrong with working harder for that amount, especially when you love the work because then you get even more pride out of it, but some kids may want to work harder in the “short” term via a professional education for the long term easier path or have better job stability even in the face of physical ailments.

teaearlgraycold 1y ago
When was this? Even 6 years ago startups in the bay paid $130-140k to juniors.
- michaelt 1y ago
  But do they pay that to 17 year olds without a college degree?
  - rootsudo 1y ago
    Yes, they did.
  - piperswe 1y ago
    As an 18 year old without a college degree in 2019, I was making $130k/yr in Palo Alto.
- blitzar 1y ago
  + there is a 10% chance the stock they got is now worth $5mil.
  - teaearlgraycold 1y ago
    10%? Oh my sweet summer child
- vlovich123 1y ago
  15 years ago.
brudgers 1y ago
Some people like physical work and don’t place high value on office jobs [1][2] [1] I did not say some people don’t enjoy physical work but do physical work anyway. [2] I did not say there is anything wrong with a preference for office jobs.
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  I think a lot of people actually like physical work and the day passes faster when you aren’t sitting at a desk. But you can’t make the big bucks there unless you are some sort of high end craftsman, and your service life is limited to how long your body stays together.
0_____0 1y ago
At a prior gig we stepped up a machine shop and ended up hiring a stinky kid who I thought was someone's homeless brother. Extremely talented, after our program wound down he started his own machine shop and now does multiple millions of dollars of revenue yearly, has staff etc, in his mid 20s now. He's a special case sure, but if you have business sense you don't have to top out at the high end of the hourly scale.
- vlovich123 1y ago
  And Vitalik Buterin was a billionaire before the age of 30 with a CS degree as was Bill Gates and Lebron James was set by the time he was 18. What's the point of talking about outliers?
somenameforme 1y ago
It feels dubious to appeal to job stability with software in modern times. Companies in the past were hiring and building out during unprecedently great times, and there's no reason to think those times will return. And on the issue of physical ailments - the one ailment we all hope to suffer is growing "old." In software there's widespread "age discrimination". Mostly it's companies not really valuing experience in software much, so they'd rather hire a younger guy for much less. But the outcome is the same - software is a relatively shortlived occupation for most people, and that's after spending another 4+ years in university, then spending however much time paying off your debts, and then finally seeing your full salary. By contrast working in the trades until retirement is entirely possible. And it's undoubtedly better for your body as well. Our bodies are meant for doing things - not idle sitting and staring at screens. I did software and CS, but will not be recommending it to my children. At this point I think the best future proofing is some sort of field where computer science is applied, rather than the occupation itself, like electrical engineering.
- 71bw 1y ago
  >At this point I think the best future proofing is some sort of field where computer science is applied, rather than the occupation itself, like electrical engineering. Amazing words for everybody to consider.

teaearlgraycold 1y ago

When was this? Even 6 years ago startups in the bay paid $130-140k to juniors.

michaelt 1y ago
But do they pay that to 17 year olds without a college degree?
- rootsudo 1y ago
  Yes, they did.
- piperswe 1y ago
  As an 18 year old without a college degree in 2019, I was making $130k/yr in Palo Alto.
blitzar 1y ago
+ there is a 10% chance the stock they got is now worth $5mil.
- teaearlgraycold 1y ago
  10%? Oh my sweet summer child
vlovich123 1y ago
15 years ago.

brudgers 1y ago

Some people like physical work and don’t place high value on office jobs [1][2] [1] I did not say some people don’t enjoy physical work but do physical work anyway. [2] I did not say there is anything wrong with a preference for office jobs.

seanmcdirmid 1y ago
I think a lot of people actually like physical work and the day passes faster when you aren’t sitting at a desk. But you can’t make the big bucks there unless you are some sort of high end craftsman, and your service life is limited to how long your body stays together.

0_____0 1y ago

At a prior gig we stepped up a machine shop and ended up hiring a stinky kid who I thought was someone's homeless brother. Extremely talented, after our program wound down he started his own machine shop and now does multiple millions of dollars of revenue yearly, has staff etc, in his mid 20s now. He's a special case sure, but if you have business sense you don't have to top out at the high end of the hourly scale.

vlovich123 1y ago
And Vitalik Buterin was a billionaire before the age of 30 with a CS degree as was Bill Gates and Lebron James was set by the time he was 18. What's the point of talking about outliers?

somenameforme 1y ago

It feels dubious to appeal to job stability with software in modern times. Companies in the past were hiring and building out during unprecedently great times, and there's no reason to think those times will return. And on the issue of physical ailments - the one ailment we all hope to suffer is growing "old." In software there's widespread "age discrimination". Mostly it's companies not really valuing experience in software much, so they'd rather hire a younger guy for much less. But the outcome is the same - software is a relatively shortlived occupation for most people, and that's after spending another 4+ years in university, then spending however much time paying off your debts, and then finally seeing your full salary. By contrast working in the trades until retirement is entirely possible. And it's undoubtedly better for your body as well. Our bodies are meant for doing things - not idle sitting and staring at screens. I did software and CS, but will not be recommending it to my children. At this point I think the best future proofing is some sort of field where computer science is applied, rather than the occupation itself, like electrical engineering.

71bw 1y ago
>At this point I think the best future proofing is some sort of field where computer science is applied, rather than the occupation itself, like electrical engineering. Amazing words for everybody to consider.