4 ms·

The general idea is to restore that order, and decouple from China. The problem is such things will require serious leadership, not mafia style extortion.

valianteffort 1y ago
[flagged]
- lantry 1y ago
  It's too bad this administration is taking it's stand very incompetently, by ostracizing all our allies and smashing our govt capacity
  - throwawaymaths 1y ago
    you're right but opponents of trump would have far more ground to stand on anything if they started by saying "well we agree with XYZ that trump wants to do, let's offer other strategies he can try if what hes doing now doesnt work". that is not happening.
    - cman1444 1y ago
      I think there's plenty of ground for his critics to stand on. We already had another strategy, and it was called the trans pacific partnership. Trump pulled the US out of that in his first term.
    - heylook 1y ago
      Nope. Wholehearted rejection of literally every policy, executive order, layoff, lawsuit, impoundment, appointment that this technofascist wannabe tries to pull. The constitution spells out how he can accomplish his goals, and everything he's trying to do requires an act of congress, and there's been literally nothing. If he's so popular and such a visionary dealmaker, why can't he get literally any actual laws passed through a congress completely controlled by his party?
      - throwawaymaths 1y ago
        save your energy for the truly heinous things that trump is going to do (starting with the abrego garcia case, and worse). then, when you have the time, go read article I section 8 and ask yourself how much stuff that isn't in there congress just decided to start authorizing we do. do that before trotting out constitutionalism arguments -- and then search the constitution for where it says the supreme court should be doing judicial review (I'm not saying it's a bad idea). the constitution is basically meaningless in this country and has been from since the beginning.
- cultcultct 1y ago
  [flagged]
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  If Trump was really going to focus on China in a constructive manner, he wouldn’t have gone off and pissed off all of our allies first. Our allies now are just as likely now to form trade agreements with China as they are with the USA, since we now appear just as bad to them as China (even worse, we don’t have much to offer compared to China). As it stands now, China couldn’t have asked for a better situation of American just deciding to go off on everyone at once. Even Canada is now looking seriously at making a trade agreement with China than with the USA, which was unthinkable just 3 months ago.
- mindslight 1y ago
  "taking a stand" - is this what the narrative is going to shift to when the decades-out-of-date approach of this mentally ill false idol blows up into widespread shortages and high inflation (again) ? "Our country is in ruins, but at least we took a stand"
  - asyx 1y ago
    I think this will be overshadowed by all the other garbage. Kinda like Germans sometimes say „well Hitler built the Autobahn“ but the industrial scale mass murder of minorities and political opponents kinda overshadows this just a little bit (it’s also false. But nobody gives a fuck about the damn highways).
- theamk 1y ago
  This would be easier to believe if tariffs were actually helping American manufactures. As of now, the tariffs on raw materials and high uncertainty means life is getting significantly worse for them. Those actions are drastic, yes, but they are harming the wrong side (American one).
smt88 1y ago
There is no universe where any set of policies will restore manufacturing to the US that can compete with China
- scrubs 1y ago
  Not proven - america can engage in selected manufacturing esp if profit isn't the main tool of measurement. Also keep in mind then ... China can't be cheap labor forever either ... either it will regress or we're all be buying from Africa which is the last place there's lower cost labor at scale. In other words it's a double edge sword for China.
  - smt88 1y ago
    China can have cheap labor forever because they're an authoritarian government that runs "re-education camps" with enormous numbers of people in them.
    - scrubs 1y ago
      Uh huh -- eventually even the Chinese won't put up with that in the long term. If however the Chinese gov run things like Russia or NK, for example, I'd reduce TTL by 50%. When fundamental problems persist overly long it goes from problem to distortion to corruption then purifies then explodes out when least expected. Here in the US we're going through a light case of that. Somehow the things Congress is supposed to handle has come out of the morass as President Trump.
      - smt88 1y ago
        Your faith that slavery and authoritarianism can be (and will be) overthrown by citizens is not based on reality. For the vast majority of human history, most societies were slaveholding monarchies. There's very little incentive for Chinese people to organize when the slaves are "criminals" or Uyghur minorities.
        1y ago

valianteffort 1y ago

[flagged]

lantry 1y ago
It's too bad this administration is taking it's stand very incompetently, by ostracizing all our allies and smashing our govt capacity
- throwawaymaths 1y ago
  you're right but opponents of trump would have far more ground to stand on anything if they started by saying "well we agree with XYZ that trump wants to do, let's offer other strategies he can try if what hes doing now doesnt work". that is not happening.
  - cman1444 1y ago
    I think there's plenty of ground for his critics to stand on. We already had another strategy, and it was called the trans pacific partnership. Trump pulled the US out of that in his first term.
  - heylook 1y ago
    Nope. Wholehearted rejection of literally every policy, executive order, layoff, lawsuit, impoundment, appointment that this technofascist wannabe tries to pull. The constitution spells out how he can accomplish his goals, and everything he's trying to do requires an act of congress, and there's been literally nothing. If he's so popular and such a visionary dealmaker, why can't he get literally any actual laws passed through a congress completely controlled by his party?
    - throwawaymaths 1y ago
      save your energy for the truly heinous things that trump is going to do (starting with the abrego garcia case, and worse). then, when you have the time, go read article I section 8 and ask yourself how much stuff that isn't in there congress just decided to start authorizing we do. do that before trotting out constitutionalism arguments -- and then search the constitution for where it says the supreme court should be doing judicial review (I'm not saying it's a bad idea). the constitution is basically meaningless in this country and has been from since the beginning.
cultcultct 1y ago
[flagged]
seanmcdirmid 1y ago
If Trump was really going to focus on China in a constructive manner, he wouldn’t have gone off and pissed off all of our allies first. Our allies now are just as likely now to form trade agreements with China as they are with the USA, since we now appear just as bad to them as China (even worse, we don’t have much to offer compared to China). As it stands now, China couldn’t have asked for a better situation of American just deciding to go off on everyone at once. Even Canada is now looking seriously at making a trade agreement with China than with the USA, which was unthinkable just 3 months ago.
mindslight 1y ago
"taking a stand" - is this what the narrative is going to shift to when the decades-out-of-date approach of this mentally ill false idol blows up into widespread shortages and high inflation (again) ? "Our country is in ruins, but at least we took a stand"
- asyx 1y ago
  I think this will be overshadowed by all the other garbage. Kinda like Germans sometimes say „well Hitler built the Autobahn“ but the industrial scale mass murder of minorities and political opponents kinda overshadows this just a little bit (it’s also false. But nobody gives a fuck about the damn highways).
theamk 1y ago
This would be easier to believe if tariffs were actually helping American manufactures. As of now, the tariffs on raw materials and high uncertainty means life is getting significantly worse for them. Those actions are drastic, yes, but they are harming the wrong side (American one).

smt88 1y ago

There is no universe where any set of policies will restore manufacturing to the US that can compete with China

scrubs 1y ago
Not proven - america can engage in selected manufacturing esp if profit isn't the main tool of measurement. Also keep in mind then ... China can't be cheap labor forever either ... either it will regress or we're all be buying from Africa which is the last place there's lower cost labor at scale. In other words it's a double edge sword for China.
- smt88 1y ago
  China can have cheap labor forever because they're an authoritarian government that runs "re-education camps" with enormous numbers of people in them.
  - scrubs 1y ago
    Uh huh -- eventually even the Chinese won't put up with that in the long term. If however the Chinese gov run things like Russia or NK, for example, I'd reduce TTL by 50%. When fundamental problems persist overly long it goes from problem to distortion to corruption then purifies then explodes out when least expected. Here in the US we're going through a light case of that. Somehow the things Congress is supposed to handle has come out of the morass as President Trump.
    - smt88 1y ago
      Your faith that slavery and authoritarianism can be (and will be) overthrown by citizens is not based on reality. For the vast majority of human history, most societies were slaveholding monarchies. There's very little incentive for Chinese people to organize when the slaves are "criminals" or Uyghur minorities.
      - 1y ago