5 ms·

I think the author fixates too much on this one construction of the idea of deathbed regrets and misses that this is just a single modern incarnation of the pos

I think the author fixates too much on this one construction of the idea of deathbed regrets and misses that this is just a single modern incarnation of the positively ancient and cross-cultural idea that you should plan your life around the knowledge that you will die. Marcus Aurelius wrote: You could leave life right now. Let that determine what you do and say and think. [1] And the Tao Te Ching: The Master gives himself up to whatever the moment brings. He knows that he is going to die, and he has nothing left to hold on to: no illusions in his mind, no resistances in his body. [2] A relevant Buddhist concept is called Maranasati [3]. And in the Quran: And donate from what We have provided for you before death comes to one of you, and you cry, “My Lord! If only You delayed me for a short while, I would give in charity and be one of the righteous.” But Allah never delays a soul when its appointed time comes. [4] And the Bible: The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’ Then he said, ‘... I will store my surplus grain. ... “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’ [5] There's something fundamentally human about contemplating one's own impending death and making changes to one's life accordingly, and nitpicking the exact wording of a single manifestation of that human impulse misses the forest for the trees. [1] Meditations 2.11 https://vreeman.com/meditations/#book2 https://vreeman.com/meditations/#book2 [2] 50 https://terebess.hu/english/tao/mitchell.html https://terebess.hu/english/tao/mitchell.html [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara%E1%B9%87asati https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara%E1%B9%87asati [4] https://quran.com/en/al-munafiqun/10-11 https://quran.com/en/al-munafiqun/10-11 [5] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+12%3A16-21&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+12%3A16-21...

zzzeek 1y ago
this is the perfect response to this post and here we see the big difference between the pure engineering /logic mindset vs. the liberal arts mindset. When I see these posts on hacker news that are all about some deep philosophical issue, but the writer seems to be approaching the issue as though it were a Google interview question to be solved in isolation of anyone else's experience or knowledge, it emphasizes what a profound blind spot exists throughout much of the tech community, and how the ever more apparent disdain for liberal arts that exists in tech is truly pernicious. Reading up on what humans around the world, across history, across disciplines, and even shudder across cultural backgrounds and gender, have to say on questions that are not actually very novel is essential if you're actually going to open up your text editor and write a blog post about it.
- jvans 1y ago
  I think this blind spot exists because the pure engineering/logic mindset is such a massive superpower in so many elements of life, people fail to consider that it might not always be the right way to think about the world. One obvious example where it falls laughably short is in interpersonal relationships. Trying to logic your way out of an emotional conflict just does not work
  - roenxi 1y ago
    > Trying to logic your way out of an emotional conflict just does not work. It does, there just needs to be a proper model of how humans work to back it up. The usual mistake is using logic to prove why a person is right instead of to work out why the relationship is going wrong. People who don't use logic to guide their interpersonal interactions cap out in some fairly shallow waters. They are more easily suckered by emotions primed to respond to looks and the present instead of properly aligning the relationship for the long haul. The easiest path to push back against those inbuilt biases is logic - there needs to be some set of principles beyond emotions to use as a guide.
    - jvans 1y ago
      Good luck with that :)
    - crawfordcomeaux 1y ago
      There's also the added issue that binary logic (what most people use when they say "logic") is only slightly less constrained than unary logic and is insufficient for modeling reality. Without uncertainty logic, the wisdom available is highly limited. This allows for every emotional story to be engaged and worked through without declaring it immediately and absolutely false, allowing emotions to inform while not letting them drive the decision-making process.
      - bckr 1y ago
        Love this thread. “Two seemingly contradictory things can both be true” “Your feelings and fantasies matter, but are not ‘real’”
turnsout 1y ago
see also memento mori [0] Edit: spelling correction! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori
- bombcar 1y ago
  Memento - momento would be something like the moment of death ;)
  - turnsout 1y ago
    Ha thanks, good catch!
rubitxxx 1y ago
From the author’s summary: “small things like short commute times make you happier. ... Going to work most days and dropping a few friends you don’t have time for may actually be sensible right now if you are in the middle of your career, doing something meaningful.” You’re correct that the author is not representing the other side of the argument sufficiently, but this is because the author is focused on rationalizing why it’s ok for people to overwork, and then suggesting a few “tips” to make it easier. Personally, I overwork because I’m slow, mistake prone, insufficiently skilled, overly-idealistic, self-sabotaging, and only know how to say yes, while I live for a business that will only try so hard to work with a universal source of randomness before it must be let go, leaving it and its dependencies to the wolves, as it comforts itself that it was the right thing to do. I often think of myself like one of the workers that built the pyramids, perhaps dropping stones and being whipped. I believe this isn’t the way, but this is where I am now.
card_zero 1y ago
> Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” > But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’ The answer is presumably "some guys who found the barns." I'm not seeing the issue here. Except I suppose he doesn't even have time to build the barns. So the lesson is, never build anything? Just party like Prince, because we could all die any day? But mortality makes people crazy, it's true. Planning around your expected death is desperate and twisted planning. You left out such ideas as "I don't care, I'll be dead by then", and "YOLO".
- _fzslm 1y ago
  I think it's a little more like... Feed your neighbours, understanding the blessing of grain came only from God, and seeking to share and extend that blessing, rather than hoarding it away for self-preservation.
  - adrianmsmith 1y ago
    That may be what it means but I don't believe that's what it says? > But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’ My only interpretation of that text is "you have planned for the future and understood delayed gratification, you fool!".
    - jpc0 1y ago
      This is all about context though, the context is “a wealthy man”. This is a parable speaking against greed. There’s a difference between having enough for yourself, which includes a healthy buffer, and excess beyond what you can ever need. There are many biblical teachings about investing and looking after your future, this is a warning against excess.
- iwontberude 1y ago

zzzeek 1y ago

this is the perfect response to this post and here we see the big difference between the pure engineering /logic mindset vs. the liberal arts mindset. When I see these posts on hacker news that are all about some deep philosophical issue, but the writer seems to be approaching the issue as though it were a Google interview question to be solved in isolation of anyone else's experience or knowledge, it emphasizes what a profound blind spot exists throughout much of the tech community, and how the ever more apparent disdain for liberal arts that exists in tech is truly pernicious. Reading up on what humans around the world, across history, across disciplines, and even shudder across cultural backgrounds and gender, have to say on questions that are not actually very novel is essential if you're actually going to open up your text editor and write a blog post about it.

jvans 1y ago
I think this blind spot exists because the pure engineering/logic mindset is such a massive superpower in so many elements of life, people fail to consider that it might not always be the right way to think about the world. One obvious example where it falls laughably short is in interpersonal relationships. Trying to logic your way out of an emotional conflict just does not work
- roenxi 1y ago
  > Trying to logic your way out of an emotional conflict just does not work. It does, there just needs to be a proper model of how humans work to back it up. The usual mistake is using logic to prove why a person is right instead of to work out why the relationship is going wrong. People who don't use logic to guide their interpersonal interactions cap out in some fairly shallow waters. They are more easily suckered by emotions primed to respond to looks and the present instead of properly aligning the relationship for the long haul. The easiest path to push back against those inbuilt biases is logic - there needs to be some set of principles beyond emotions to use as a guide.
  - jvans 1y ago
    Good luck with that :)
  - crawfordcomeaux 1y ago
    There's also the added issue that binary logic (what most people use when they say "logic") is only slightly less constrained than unary logic and is insufficient for modeling reality. Without uncertainty logic, the wisdom available is highly limited. This allows for every emotional story to be engaged and worked through without declaring it immediately and absolutely false, allowing emotions to inform while not letting them drive the decision-making process.
    - bckr 1y ago
      Love this thread. “Two seemingly contradictory things can both be true” “Your feelings and fantasies matter, but are not ‘real’”

turnsout 1y ago

see also memento mori [0] Edit: spelling correction! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori

bombcar 1y ago
Memento - momento would be something like the moment of death ;)
- turnsout 1y ago
  Ha thanks, good catch!

rubitxxx 1y ago

From the author’s summary: “small things like short commute times make you happier. ... Going to work most days and dropping a few friends you don’t have time for may actually be sensible right now if you are in the middle of your career, doing something meaningful.” You’re correct that the author is not representing the other side of the argument sufficiently, but this is because the author is focused on rationalizing why it’s ok for people to overwork, and then suggesting a few “tips” to make it easier. Personally, I overwork because I’m slow, mistake prone, insufficiently skilled, overly-idealistic, self-sabotaging, and only know how to say yes, while I live for a business that will only try so hard to work with a universal source of randomness before it must be let go, leaving it and its dependencies to the wolves, as it comforts itself that it was the right thing to do. I often think of myself like one of the workers that built the pyramids, perhaps dropping stones and being whipped. I believe this isn’t the way, but this is where I am now.

card_zero 1y ago

> Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.” > But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’ The answer is presumably "some guys who found the barns." I'm not seeing the issue here. Except I suppose he doesn't even have time to build the barns. So the lesson is, never build anything? Just party like Prince, because we could all die any day? But mortality makes people crazy, it's true. Planning around your expected death is desperate and twisted planning. You left out such ideas as "I don't care, I'll be dead by then", and "YOLO".

_fzslm 1y ago
I think it's a little more like... Feed your neighbours, understanding the blessing of grain came only from God, and seeking to share and extend that blessing, rather than hoarding it away for self-preservation.
- adrianmsmith 1y ago
  That may be what it means but I don't believe that's what it says? > But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’ My only interpretation of that text is "you have planned for the future and understood delayed gratification, you fool!".
  - jpc0 1y ago
    This is all about context though, the context is “a wealthy man”. This is a parable speaking against greed. There’s a difference between having enough for yourself, which includes a healthy buffer, and excess beyond what you can ever need. There are many biblical teachings about investing and looking after your future, this is a warning against excess.
iwontberude 1y ago