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Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US
- shivajikobardan 1y ago[flagged]
- stop50 1y agoTrue. The bargain sale has already started. The challenge is to get the people to stay for an indefinite time.
- sschueller 1y agoWith federal funding cuts across the board and people getting black bagged because of free speech I don't think it is that hard. Additionaly having the trump Admin now floating around the idea to suspend habious corpus why would you want to risk it?
- kelnos 1y agoI think that's perhaps -- perhaps! -- true of US citizens who live in the US and have seen their research funding evaporate. I'm not a scientist, but if my job prospects in the US started getting really grim, I would still have a hard time leaving my home to work elsewhere. But I'd probably at least consider it. But non-citizens, especially those who are being pushed to self-deport (or worse)...? I feel like something like this will be an easy sell for them.
- manoweb 1y agoHello, the self deport is for illegal aliens. There is no concern for who is in the USA with a valid visa to do science. In fact, the longest scientists and highly qualified people from Europe had to wait for a green card was under the Obama administration.
- qbit42 1y agoSo much funding is being paused and cut though, who's to say if your field of study will still have federal funding in 1,2,4 years? This lack of funding stability is making US academia way less appealing.
- kelnos 1y agoNo surprise there, and a very smart move. I'm disgusted that my country is telling the world it doesn't want to be a leader in scientific research anymore, but all these people will certainly find a place to do their research somewhere else. > an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027 That seems like nowhere near enough money, though. But I suppose it's better than nothing.
- rednafi 1y agoEurope really needs to fix the funding issue and language fragmentation. Otherwise there's no "luring people in." Every time someone brings this up, a bunch of people are like, "Have you ever worked in the EU? They all speak English at work." Yes, I have, and also on three other continents. Europe hasn’t adopted English at work that much, and no one I know is excited about dealing with racism, picking up the local language while doing high-octane white-collar jobs or research. Europe keeps a ton of jobs gated behind language requirements. Sure, you'll get the most desperate people who need a visa this way, but Europe isn’t attracting top of the crop like the US this way. Also, the red tape is brutal and everything requires six layers of bureaucracy. Even Amazon orders and customer service suck, but that's beside the point. It's way easier to get into a great US university and get funding for research. It's also easier to get a job afterward. The sheer number of opportunities, combined with the lack of a language barrier and less bureaucracy, makes the US better than all the other alternatives despite the poor transportation, weak social safety net, and terrible healthcare.
- viraptor 1y agoHoly mother of generalisations. I'm not even going to try addressing separate things. My problem with the post is that the claims are too broad to refute, but too FUD to not respond to.
- prmoustache 1y ago> Europe hasn’t adopted English at work that much Not where it isn't strictly necessary and I believe it is a good thing but I've seen english being used whenever people from multiple european countries are working with each other. It is the case in IT and definitely the case in research too. Even 27 years ago when I was an intern in France, my office was next to the office of some mathematicians, I believe one japanese, a russian and another one I don't remember and they were all speaking in english.
- hnhg 1y agoWhich part of Europe? It really doesn't make sense to generalise such a diverse set of countries. Can you be more specific?
- 1y ago
- klunger 1y agoMy department (at a Norwegian university) is working on a headhunting plan. The way the ERC grants are structured, the applicant needs a sponsoring institute. So, we are identifying researchers who are working on relevant topics, if we think it will be a good fit (and/or if we have successfully collaborated with them in the past). Some of the details are still being ironed out. The beauracracy is real! Even so, I guess the first emails will go out late next week.
- kgdiem 1y agoHow do you think that Norway’s wealth tax could impact its ability to draw talent from any other country? Knowing that, should you develop anything (drug, material, etc) and want to spin it out to a startup, you will be taxed on the unrealized valuation would weigh very heavily on me were I a researcher. Full disclosure, I know that this isn’t everyone’s goal, but this is HN after all!
- cherry_tree 1y ago“I want to contribute to society, but if I earn more than X Millions of dollars 1% of my wealth will be taxed” I guess don’t try to contribute to society then. What you are describing isnt a hacker mentality, it’s one of an MBA graduate whose sole purpose in life is to maximize their own wealth. The idea that such a mentality is linked to this forum shows how far hacker culture has fallen and is deeply sad.
- kgdiem 1y agoThe problem is that the wealth tax is based on your assets. 51% ownership of your $10M early stage startup is $5.1M in wealth, not a liquid asset. Nevertheless, you will owe $51k/yr to the Norwegian government. If you raise a second round at $15M, next year you owe $76k, so on. This creates an impossible situation for a founder of, let’s say, a fission reactor startup. I could be wrong also, I was curious to hear a real life Norwegian’s thought about it. A system like this only serves entrenched interests, not entrepreneurs or workers. Want to make a life saving drug? Have to sell off ownership of your company or use runway to pay taxes on something that could be absolutely worthless in the end or wind up losing control. Better off selling to Novonordisk!
- geremiiah 1y agoEU is offering what was on the table anyway. EU academia was always more accessible and less competitive than US academia, for obvious reasons. Downside of that is you get to work in environments with a sparser density of talent and accomplishments.
- DrFalkyn 1y agoI thought it was the exact opposite. European universities were a lot harder to get a faculty appointment. And they tended to favor local candidates , Which is why you see a lot of US universities have foreign professors, but not as many European universities that do
- geremiiah 1y agoI was not talking about faculty appointments, but more junior academics. For people at that level I would think it even less likely that they would upend their whole life like this. They are probably married with kids at that point.
- DrFalkyn 1y agoIn academia you are forced to go where the jobs are, or else you leave the field. Yes I have known people married with kids who move overseas
- pavlov 1y agoThat last part is what they're hoping will change now that the US has become hostile to foreign talent.
- klunger 1y agoNo, it is a new fund that is only for scientists coming from outside Europe. https://erc.europa.eu/news-events/news/choose-europe-science-erc-welcomes-new-budget-super-grants https://erc.europa.eu/news-events/news/choose-europe-science...
- 1y ago
- fooker 1y agoEurope does every thing except the only needed thing, paying up. Not just for this, same for finding startups, helping Ukraine or Palestine.
- continuational 1y agoThe EU spends as much as the US on Ukraine, and about twice as much if you count refugee aid.
- mobtrain 1y agoEurope „needs to pay up […] for Palestine” .. can you expand on this a little why you'd think that?
- mpweiher 1y agoYeah, funding a terror group that wants to destroy the west seems like a suboptimal use of our wealth.
- yladiz 1y agoYou do realize that Hamas and Palestine are not the same thing right, even if they are obviously related? Funding aid for Palestine is not the same as funding Hamas, even if it is impossible to avoid some money being used in ways it’s not supposed to.
- egisspegis 1y agoShould we fund/send aid for russia too? Since, you know, russian army is not the same as russian people. Or maybe we should lift sanctions off russia? I have a hunch a lot of pro-hamas people would love that.
- yladiz 1y agoAre the Russian people being persecuted such that many of them are being bombed in their homes after being given a token amount of time to evacuate, or many are starving to death?
- perihelions 1y agoYou people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. How much does—or did, recently—the United States federal government invest in scientists in the USA? Is it ~$70 billion a year? [0] Europe can achieve America's (past) results when Europe starts talking with money. Science migration has historically gone in one direction across the Atlantic, and it is 100% about who pays better. The EU isn't remotely close to funding its own scientists properly—let alone attract new ones from abroad! If European science benefits from the ongoing government implosion in the USA, that'd be entirely due to the US' unforced error. EU's politicians deserve no credit. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_policy_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_policy_of_the_United_S... ("Science policy of the United States")
- Zenul_Abidin 1y agoYeah I see this initiative only bringing in a few US scientists, specifically the more politically-inclined ones.
- surgical_fire 1y ago> You people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. Such is life when you can't infinitely print money for being the world reserve currency. When the whole world is buying your debt no questions asked, it's much easier to write some larger checks you know.
- fxtentacle 1y agoI believe the goal of this initiative is not to create a better offer in Europe. It's to remind US scientists that US funding has been axed.
- mpweiher 1y agoThis is not EU R&D budget. This is a small delta, extra funding specifically for attracting US scientists who are looking to move. Comparing this to the total expenditure by the US federal government seems...odd. I asked ChatGPT: "Combining both EU-level and national R&D expenditures, the total R&D spending across the EU in 2023 was approximately €505 billion." But that appears to be total, both government and industry. Spending by national government was apparently around € 123 billion. In addition, the EU spent ~ € 13 billion a year. So a total of € 136 billion in government spending. https://www.eureporter.co/economy/eurostat-economy/2024/08/08/eu-governments-increased-rd-allocations-by-5-in-2023/?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.eureporter.co/economy/eurostat-economy/2024/08/0... https://eufunds.me/what-is-the-budget-of-horizon-europe/ https://eufunds.me/what-is-the-budget-of-horizon-europe/
- atemerev 1y agoOh well. When Russian scientists were escaping the horrible realities of Putin's regime, had someone in Europe attempted to "lure" them? No, they were fired by hundreds [1] and students were not allowed anymore [2]. Not counting the immense indirect pressure like closing their bank accounts and not prolonging their existing residence documents even when they had jobs. When Ukrainian scientists tried to escape the horrible war of aggression and cruelty that Russia brought on them, did someone try to "lure" them in? No, they had some charity help and some temporary programs, but mostly they get "emergency temporary" permits with the condition they have to go home afterwards. These temporary protection measures are now being phased out [3] and many Ukrainian scientists will be shown the door. Now, American scientists are escaping the horrible realities of their regime. But for them, EU is much more friendlier and welcoming. What is the difference? [1] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/science/cern-to-expel-500-russian-scientists-from-november-30/87643637 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/science/cern-to-expel-500-russi... [2] https://t-invariant.org/2024/12/swiss-cross-on-russian-students-famous-zurich-university-imposes-sanctions-on-them-for-security-reasons/ https://t-invariant.org/2024/12/swiss-cross-on-russian-stude... [3] https://www.icmpd.org/blog/2025/phasing-out-temporary-protection-shaping-eu-policies-through-national-experiences https://www.icmpd.org/blog/2025/phasing-out-temporary-protec...
- ascorbic 1y agoIt's quite misleading to refer to them as "escaping the horrible realities of Putin's regime" like they were some kind of defectors, when according to your source they were all working as representatives of Russian labs, and most weren't based at CERN itself. It was the cooperation with the affiliated labs that was terminated. Russian citizens affiliated to non-Russian labs were allowed to stay.
- atemerev 1y agoRussia was not a member of CERN, so most Russian physicists worked there on (fake-ish, for documents only) exchange programs with JINR Russia. Most of them were living in France or Switzerland for many years. Given the opportunity, every single one of them would have changed the affiliation, but CERN only agreed to employ them this way (unless they find an actual academic position in an actual European university on a short notice, which is next to impossible). Okay, maybe there were a few actual JINR employees, but that what screening is for. I am a Russian scientist too (not CERN affiliated). I live in a European country since 2005. I donated many thousands dollars to Ukrainian causes, and brought hundreds of thousands of value with donations I organized. Now, my bank account is blocked just for the reason of my nationality, and my residence permit is not being renewed. Meanwhile, Russian oligarchs continue managing shadow fleets from European countries, and exchange millions of dollars freely (e.g. with Raiffeisen bank), and everybody knows that (I am not allowed, of course, to open any bank account, neither in Raiffeisen, not anywhere else in Europe). And many EU countries still pay hundreds of millions for Russian natural gas, and this money directly finance Russian military power. I personally know Ukrainian scientists who lost their temporary protection permits too. Some of them moved back to war-thorn Ukraine, others went to other countries to try their luck there. You can say "well, tough luck". But tough luck will be for many other people. Some Americans are now wondering why they are being turned away, asking "but we never voted for him!" And they weren't indeed. Judging people by their nationality is not good for everyone involved.
- fakedang 1y ago500 million for attracting the best academia is why Europe is a has-been and will continue to remain a has-been. The actual number should have been 50 billion, but Europe would rather spend that on consultants, policythinkers and thoughtleaders.
- constantcrying 1y agoI see great success for this programs, if they can avoid telling these scientists what they are going to get paid or how much taxes they will have to pay. If you want to get paid, by American standards, lower middle class wages, then sure, come to Europe. You can also enjoy arcane organizations and bureaucratic nightmares.
- mdhb 1y agoYou say this like the threat of getting sent to the gulag without any possible recourse isn’t the other option in this scenario. This isn’t a hard decision.
- jillesvangurp 1y agoThe article seems to be in Spanish? Anyway, I think this is smart. I live in Berlin and I noticed a bit of an uptick in the amount of US people coming this way lately. The politics in the US might have something to do with that. There's definitely an interest for people to leave there. Also, the US has been leaning a lot on foreigners to keep its research departments going for decades now. Indians, Chinese, and indeed Europeans. If you look at Silicon Valley, there are a lot of immigrants running companies there. With all the madness around immigration in the US, it has become a bit less attractive as a country to move to. I think this is as much about making the EU a more attractive place to that group of people than it is about luring actual US citizens this way. The EU has its own issues on immigration. But it's there and there are a lot of opportunities here. I noticed a sharp uptick in Indian job applications recently. There's a lot of talk about money. But most academics aren't on the huge fees you would need to sustain yourself in places with extremely high cost of living on the East and West coast. Academics don't earn a lot in Europe. I used to be one. But you can live well on what you earn nevertheless.
- Yeul 1y agoYou come to the Netherlands because you want to live in a country free from religion and fascism. And don't worry there's money too.
- bgwalter 1y agoThe European elites will do anything to decrease job chances for their native populations.
- jalapenos 1y agoSo they can... not do anything, to stay compliant?
- waltercool 1y ago[dead]
- asdf6969 1y agoAre there even enough positions for European scientists? I thought academia was already extremely competitive. Maybe these scientists can start new schools in America with private funding instead
- czottmann 1y agoEnglish language version: https://www.wired.com/story/us-cuts-scientific-talent-europe/ https://www.wired.com/story/us-cuts-scientific-talent-europe... (Archived: https://archive.is/20250508090733/https://www.wired.com/story/us-cuts-scientific-talent-europe/ https://archive.is/20250508090733/https://www.wired.com/stor...)
- cco 1y agoTo be honest your post captures what will likely be the biggest hurdle, English.
- wvoch235 1y agoThe problem with the European mindset on this, is it's always involves bureaucrats taking their taxpayers money and allocating it in smarter ways than American investors who are doing it with their own money. If that seems unlikely to work to you, then you possess critical thinking. The US spends more on R&D (Private and Public) than the next 5 countries combined. Public research is and since the 70s has been a small fraction of research spending in the US. That's why their companies actually innovate. If Europe doesn't change the inventive structures that are preventing investment in R&D, no amount of government money is going to fill that void...
- enaaem 1y agoEurope cannot pool infinite investors money because of the fractured capital market. It's funny enough actually the lack of EU regulation that causes this. Because you get 27 different regulatory bodies, that makes cross country investments much more complicated. That being said, I find Europe's research and industrial capacity to be underrated. Europe is very competitive in industries like cars and tooling. You don't really see American cars in Asia, but still tons of European luxury cars. Europe does well in boring tech that does not receive infinite VC money.
- nextos 1y agoAlso European Academia is very hierarchical. The US has a much healthier proportion of early career faculty positions, which you can apply to straight after your PhD or a postdoc. IMHO, this creates some strange dynamics and doesn't favor new ideas.
- throwoutway 1y agoDARPA might be an exception to that rule. I've always been inspired by dARPA
- overfeed 1y ago> than American investors who are doing it with their own money American investors prefer spending other people's money too, they just happen to capture most of the returns, and the public gets just enough dregs through their 401k or pension funds to keep the cycle going.
- more_corn 1y agoLure is a strong word. All they have to do is provide a place where they can do science without ideological interference.
- esbranson 1y agoOMG you actually believe that. I am perennially surprised how little anyone knows about what actually happens in European governments. I hope one day Continental Europe will catch up with 1990s-2000s America and publish their law (including binding opinions) in machine-readable formats, but we know that will never happen because it encourages comments like yours. Ignorance is bliss.