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But think of the coal mining jobs... In all seriousness though, China is also not some young slick economic powerhouse. It's largely propped up facade with ser

But think of the coal mining jobs... In all seriousness though, China is also not some young slick economic powerhouse. It's largely propped up facade with serious structural issues that the US doesn't have. Also keep in mind that while countries are annoyed with the US, that doesn't mean they are going to welcome Chinese ships into their waters.

bilbo0s 1y ago
At this point that ship has sailed. I think the answer fairly conclusively in the global south is that, yes, yes they will let Chinese ships in their waters. It will be bizarro-land if we have people in Kenya, Colombia, South Africa, and Peru driving around in 10000 dollar Chinese EVs and using 5000 dollar Chinese robots to clean their homes. While we pay 5 to 10 times that for the same conveniences. I seriously think there's a really good chance the world 25 years from now may have a fundamentally different structure than it has had for the past 100 years.
- pclmulqdq 1y ago
  It's time to open your eyes to the way the rest of the world lives because "bizzaro land" is basically here. Cheap Chinese roomba replacements clean people's homes, $15000 Chinese EVs are insanely popular, and the price of all these goods certified for the US market is 200-300% higher, so many Chinese companies don't bother.
- Izkata 1y ago
  Some quick searches on car costs and converting between South African rand and USD, it looks like US consumers already pay around 2-3x as much for a car (just in general using averages, didn't look for specific models or EVs).
  - alabastervlog 1y ago
    Car prices in the US are way up over the last few years—prices, which were already trending up, spiked with "Covid shortages" and then just kept going up after those should have been alleviated. Was the ratio as bad in, say, 2015? (I really don't know)
woooooo 1y ago
They are far and away the leaders in manufacturing. Also the only country with a tech sector on near parity with the US. Yes, their housing market is messed up and that causes problems in the financial sector, but it's a real stretch to call everything else in the country "propped up".
- datavirtue 1y ago
  Any mfg that can is leaving China right now. This happened on a smaller level with Trump's last Tariffs.
  - crote 1y ago
    Are they really, though? Other countries simply don't have the same supply lines and trained workforce. There are no other countries with anything even remotely comparable to something like Shenzhen's electronics market, for example. Who wants to go to a different country when your product will take longer to ship, will have a worse quality, and will be more expensive to manufacture? Besides, the US doesn't have a stable foreign policy. Moving your manufacturing to a different country takes years, why would anyone start that process when there is zero guarantee that the same tariffs will be in place a month from now, let alone a year or two from now? And where would you move to? Any country which attracts a significant amount of manufacturing is pretty much guaranteed to be hit with the same kind of tariffs. The only safe option is the US itself - but it's often cheaper to just accept the tariffs! I bet a lot of companies are just going to accept the revenue loss and wait for the US to stop acting crazy. The tariffs are only just starting to hit and people are already getting mad. This won't last forever.
    - spwa4 1y ago
      > Other countries simply don't have the same supply lines and trained workforce This is tempered, isn't it? 1) the whole advantage of China that we exploited WAS a large untrained uneducated workforce. That wasn't worth it anymore and things like textiles have already largely moved. Of course, this doesn't apply to a number of sectors like electronics. But: 2) anyone educated and/or with money is scrambling to leave China, and this is nothing new.
zelda420 1y ago
Are Chinese ships not already delivering products and welcomed? I was Peru last year and saw nothing but Chinese made electronics, especially phones, and a lot of cars. I see more and more Chinese electric cars in Mexico too. Talking to the locals they seem to like Chinese tourists just wish they spent as much as Americans.
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  Warships.
- datavirtue 1y ago
  Nope. All other Asian countries are putting transshipment controls in place to prevent Chinese trade getting funnelled through. They went around Trump in his first term and now he is out for revenge. Mfgs must leave China now if they want access to the US market. He just skull fucked Chinas economy.
  - bigbadfeline 1y ago
    > They went around Trump in his first term and now he is out for revenge. Sounds like high IQ statesman's behavior. > He just skull fucked Chinas economy. There, we get high IQ commentary as well... seems like, we're lucky today.

bilbo0s 1y ago

At this point that ship has sailed. I think the answer fairly conclusively in the global south is that, yes, yes they will let Chinese ships in their waters. It will be bizarro-land if we have people in Kenya, Colombia, South Africa, and Peru driving around in 10000 dollar Chinese EVs and using 5000 dollar Chinese robots to clean their homes. While we pay 5 to 10 times that for the same conveniences. I seriously think there's a really good chance the world 25 years from now may have a fundamentally different structure than it has had for the past 100 years.

pclmulqdq 1y ago
It's time to open your eyes to the way the rest of the world lives because "bizzaro land" is basically here. Cheap Chinese roomba replacements clean people's homes, $15000 Chinese EVs are insanely popular, and the price of all these goods certified for the US market is 200-300% higher, so many Chinese companies don't bother.
Izkata 1y ago
Some quick searches on car costs and converting between South African rand and USD, it looks like US consumers already pay around 2-3x as much for a car (just in general using averages, didn't look for specific models or EVs).
- alabastervlog 1y ago
  Car prices in the US are way up over the last few years—prices, which were already trending up, spiked with "Covid shortages" and then just kept going up after those should have been alleviated. Was the ratio as bad in, say, 2015? (I really don't know)

woooooo 1y ago

They are far and away the leaders in manufacturing. Also the only country with a tech sector on near parity with the US. Yes, their housing market is messed up and that causes problems in the financial sector, but it's a real stretch to call everything else in the country "propped up".

datavirtue 1y ago
Any mfg that can is leaving China right now. This happened on a smaller level with Trump's last Tariffs.
- crote 1y ago
  Are they really, though? Other countries simply don't have the same supply lines and trained workforce. There are no other countries with anything even remotely comparable to something like Shenzhen's electronics market, for example. Who wants to go to a different country when your product will take longer to ship, will have a worse quality, and will be more expensive to manufacture? Besides, the US doesn't have a stable foreign policy. Moving your manufacturing to a different country takes years, why would anyone start that process when there is zero guarantee that the same tariffs will be in place a month from now, let alone a year or two from now? And where would you move to? Any country which attracts a significant amount of manufacturing is pretty much guaranteed to be hit with the same kind of tariffs. The only safe option is the US itself - but it's often cheaper to just accept the tariffs! I bet a lot of companies are just going to accept the revenue loss and wait for the US to stop acting crazy. The tariffs are only just starting to hit and people are already getting mad. This won't last forever.
  - spwa4 1y ago
    > Other countries simply don't have the same supply lines and trained workforce This is tempered, isn't it? 1) the whole advantage of China that we exploited WAS a large untrained uneducated workforce. That wasn't worth it anymore and things like textiles have already largely moved. Of course, this doesn't apply to a number of sectors like electronics. But: 2) anyone educated and/or with money is scrambling to leave China, and this is nothing new.

zelda420 1y ago

Are Chinese ships not already delivering products and welcomed? I was Peru last year and saw nothing but Chinese made electronics, especially phones, and a lot of cars. I see more and more Chinese electric cars in Mexico too. Talking to the locals they seem to like Chinese tourists just wish they spent as much as Americans.

Workaccount2 1y ago
Warships.
datavirtue 1y ago
Nope. All other Asian countries are putting transshipment controls in place to prevent Chinese trade getting funnelled through. They went around Trump in his first term and now he is out for revenge. Mfgs must leave China now if they want access to the US market. He just skull fucked Chinas economy.
- bigbadfeline 1y ago
  > They went around Trump in his first term and now he is out for revenge. Sounds like high IQ statesman's behavior. > He just skull fucked Chinas economy. There, we get high IQ commentary as well... seems like, we're lucky today.