4 ms·

I don’t think there is clinical level evidence for it, but there’s this thing called Trauma Releasing Exercise which apparently some people swear by. The idea i

by pizza 1y ago

I don’t think there is clinical level evidence for it, but there’s this thing called Trauma Releasing Exercise which apparently some people swear by. The idea is that you do extremely taxing, high neuromuscular-recruitment static holds etc - til the point of total muscle control loss that turns into widespread trembling. I would speculate that if a big part of feeling bad is getting stuck in a state where tension becomes a problematic passive default state that is hard to get out of, that a short, hard ‘nudge’ in the form of overwhelming exertion might be enough to ‘reset’. All speculation until proven though. What’s interesting about the origins of the technique is that the guy thought of the possibility that adults learn to suppress visible trauma reactions - uncontrolled shaking, etc - whereas children and animals wouldn’t, and for whatever reason they would also be able to return to normal more quickly. He wondered if maybe that there was a tangible benefit to the shaking itself, in that it could help perturb out of the traumatized state itself.

pseudocomposer 1y ago
In the last few years I've definitely learned I get some sort of "release" from practicing/holding handstands and other hand/arm-balancing moves and, later, (less so, but with less weird looks from people) from yoga balances (tree, warrior 3, eagle, [revolved] half moon, dancer).
computerdork 1y ago
Wow, this makes a lot of sense. Nothing like a super intense workout to relieve stress. I need a short one every night after a long day. Feels like it erases all the crap I went through during the day.
goda90 1y ago
> I don’t think there is clinical level evidence for it Even if it's 100% placebo, if it's not harmful, and it works for a person, then it works. But, determining if it's not harmful should be a priority. I found this person saying it made their life worse, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD_NSCommunity/comments/ungaew/tretrauma_releasing_exercises_ruined_my_life_i/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD_NSCommunity/comments/ungaew/t...
- detourdog 1y ago
  I think you are correct. The strangest things I have learned about personality disorder is that diagnosis applies for as long as the disordered behavior exists. If the disordered person's behavior adapts to "social norms" the diagnosis no longer applies.
  - Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1y ago
    Well yeah but the definition of "personnality" IS that it's not supposed to move. Do there's a kinda circular reasonning going on
    - detourdog 1y ago
      I think that is how one graduates to the next level of dysregulation. If the one can't change their attitude and it is pervasive that is a more severe problem. Finally I think there is evidence that people are able to change if they desire it and devote years to it.
  - parineum 1y ago
    You're somewhat implying this but I'm not sure if you know it exactly but others might find it informative... The reason for that is that the "disorder" part of it is a requirement that it get in the way of normal living. You can have anxiety but if you take a deep breath and you can overcome it, it's not a disorder. If that doesn't help or even if you just haven't tried it, it's a disorder.
    - detourdog 1y ago
      Thank you. Does that make it also situational or even relationship specific? I guess the depth of the relationship might also ramp the disorder.
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      I wish some psychiatrists knew that. I had a recent conversation with at least two who do not. One of them is around 35 years old (so quite young). These days they call hobbies (like drawing) a "distraction" or go as far as call it an addiction. They are so out of touch with the literature and science with regarding to psychiatry, it is wild.
sthatipamala 1y ago
The holds are not "extremely" taxing, I would say. The tremors can be induced through a simple 7 step sequence of holds like wall sits or calf raises. There are walkthroughs on YouTube. On the TRE subreddit [0], people report being able to tremor at will once they have enough experience with the technique. Not trying to be pedantic, just clarifying that it is very accessible! I've personally been experimenting with it and find it to be helpful. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/longtermTRE/ https://www.reddit.com/r/longtermTRE/
toisanji 1y ago
I've done it a few time, not sure if it worked for me, but if it really works, I would love to feel those effects. Maybe I need to do it more?
__turbobrew__ 1y ago
That’s interesting. I have the problem of being tense in the passive state, and I find doing heavy exercise to exhaustion has helped me the most.
9x39 1y ago
I think we're way early to have clinical evidence for a lot of vagal nerve theory that is approachable by anyone outside research fields, but I've had my eyes opened to how much is connected to vagal nerve stimulation (VNS). For example, basically deep belly breathing reduces stress supposedly through VNS: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6189422/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6189422/. Yoga, yes, but also even popular and known in some military and police cultures where I've seen it labeled "tactical breathing" as a proven way to lower stress responses like heart rates on command. There seems to be growing evidence around some of these responses being real and reproducible. FWIW, I've personally observed this working in my family with a licensed therapist as a family member was able to develop and rely on belly breathing to interrupt the onset of panic attacks. There's a lot of talk - if not reproducible science yet - about the possibilities of positively outcomes through so much connected to the vagal nerve. At something more of a stretch, the same pro-VNS therapist posited to me that even swallowing is a way to engage in VNS, and thus might have a connection to eating disorders. Sure enough, maybe there is emerging evidence: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8027699/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8027699/ Emerging therapies seem to always get a sideways glance from the medical industry which loves its double-blind derived protocols, so I've started to be more receptive to being part of the vanguard in experimentation when I or someone I love is acutely suffering and it doesn't have a known protocol to alleviate it. An example of that reluctance in PTSD, of course, is the controversial psychedelic therapies: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38284341/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38284341/. Sometimes these treatments just need time, and if they're reproducible, they grow in popularity.
strangegecko 1y ago
> He wondered if maybe that there was a tangible benefit to the shaking itself, in that it could help perturb out of the traumatized state itself. As someone with a trauma background who never learned to suppress this shaking, I am very skeptical of that idea. I'm middle aged by now and still have severe social anxiety problems in certain moments. My body will still shake when this process gets triggered off.

by pizza 1y ago

pseudocomposer 1y ago

In the last few years I've definitely learned I get some sort of "release" from practicing/holding handstands and other hand/arm-balancing moves and, later, (less so, but with less weird looks from people) from yoga balances (tree, warrior 3, eagle, [revolved] half moon, dancer).

computerdork 1y ago

Wow, this makes a lot of sense. Nothing like a super intense workout to relieve stress. I need a short one every night after a long day. Feels like it erases all the crap I went through during the day.

goda90 1y ago

> I don’t think there is clinical level evidence for it Even if it's 100% placebo, if it's not harmful, and it works for a person, then it works. But, determining if it's not harmful should be a priority. I found this person saying it made their life worse, for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD_NSCommunity/comments/ungaew/tretrauma_releasing_exercises_ruined_my_life_i/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD_NSCommunity/comments/ungaew/t...

detourdog 1y ago
I think you are correct. The strangest things I have learned about personality disorder is that diagnosis applies for as long as the disordered behavior exists. If the disordered person's behavior adapts to "social norms" the diagnosis no longer applies.
- Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 1y ago
  Well yeah but the definition of "personnality" IS that it's not supposed to move. Do there's a kinda circular reasonning going on
  - detourdog 1y ago
    I think that is how one graduates to the next level of dysregulation. If the one can't change their attitude and it is pervasive that is a more severe problem. Finally I think there is evidence that people are able to change if they desire it and devote years to it.
- parineum 1y ago
  You're somewhat implying this but I'm not sure if you know it exactly but others might find it informative... The reason for that is that the "disorder" part of it is a requirement that it get in the way of normal living. You can have anxiety but if you take a deep breath and you can overcome it, it's not a disorder. If that doesn't help or even if you just haven't tried it, it's a disorder.
  - detourdog 1y ago
    Thank you. Does that make it also situational or even relationship specific? I guess the depth of the relationship might also ramp the disorder.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    I wish some psychiatrists knew that. I had a recent conversation with at least two who do not. One of them is around 35 years old (so quite young). These days they call hobbies (like drawing) a "distraction" or go as far as call it an addiction. They are so out of touch with the literature and science with regarding to psychiatry, it is wild.

sthatipamala 1y ago

The holds are not "extremely" taxing, I would say. The tremors can be induced through a simple 7 step sequence of holds like wall sits or calf raises. There are walkthroughs on YouTube. On the TRE subreddit [0], people report being able to tremor at will once they have enough experience with the technique. Not trying to be pedantic, just clarifying that it is very accessible! I've personally been experimenting with it and find it to be helpful. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/longtermTRE/ https://www.reddit.com/r/longtermTRE/

toisanji 1y ago

I've done it a few time, not sure if it worked for me, but if it really works, I would love to feel those effects. Maybe I need to do it more?

__turbobrew__ 1y ago

That’s interesting. I have the problem of being tense in the passive state, and I find doing heavy exercise to exhaustion has helped me the most.

9x39 1y ago

I think we're way early to have clinical evidence for a lot of vagal nerve theory that is approachable by anyone outside research fields, but I've had my eyes opened to how much is connected to vagal nerve stimulation (VNS). For example, basically deep belly breathing reduces stress supposedly through VNS: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6189422/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6189422/. Yoga, yes, but also even popular and known in some military and police cultures where I've seen it labeled "tactical breathing" as a proven way to lower stress responses like heart rates on command. There seems to be growing evidence around some of these responses being real and reproducible. FWIW, I've personally observed this working in my family with a licensed therapist as a family member was able to develop and rely on belly breathing to interrupt the onset of panic attacks. There's a lot of talk - if not reproducible science yet - about the possibilities of positively outcomes through so much connected to the vagal nerve. At something more of a stretch, the same pro-VNS therapist posited to me that even swallowing is a way to engage in VNS, and thus might have a connection to eating disorders. Sure enough, maybe there is emerging evidence: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8027699/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8027699/ Emerging therapies seem to always get a sideways glance from the medical industry which loves its double-blind derived protocols, so I've started to be more receptive to being part of the vanguard in experimentation when I or someone I love is acutely suffering and it doesn't have a known protocol to alleviate it. An example of that reluctance in PTSD, of course, is the controversial psychedelic therapies: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38284341/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38284341/. Sometimes these treatments just need time, and if they're reproducible, they grow in popularity.

strangegecko 1y ago

> He wondered if maybe that there was a tangible benefit to the shaking itself, in that it could help perturb out of the traumatized state itself. As someone with a trauma background who never learned to suppress this shaking, I am very skeptical of that idea. I'm middle aged by now and still have severe social anxiety problems in certain moments. My body will still shake when this process gets triggered off.