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Where do you see energy star mandating anything besides disclosure? If you want to be certified, sure, but that's voluntary. The only thing energy star is goi

Where do you see energy star mandating anything besides disclosure? If you want to be certified, sure, but that's voluntary. The only thing energy star is going is mandating companies inform their customer so the customer can decide and compare products. The free market is making you dishwashers use less energy, not energy star

timr 2y ago
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- haswell 2y ago
  > Sure, it's "voluntary" in the sense that if you don't do it, you won't be picked up by any major distributors. But now you’re describing market forces.
- merrywhether 2y ago
  That sounds like the market at work? Government doesn’t control what private companies stock, so it seems they’ve gotten some signal that the majority of their customers prefer energy-efficient products. If you’re a non-mainstream consumer, things are always going to be harder for you.
  - timr 2y ago
    When you insert a giant labeling bureaucracy in the middle of it, then point to consumers doing what they would have done anyway, then no, it’s not “the market at work”. It’s a bit like making a Department of Deliciousness, and “voluntarily” labeling every cookie sold as part of the SweetStar program. My goodness…people like certified delicious products! Let’s hire more people…
- sokoloff 2y ago
  > How many non-Energy-Star appliances do you see at Home Depot and Wal Mart? I just did a search for dishwashers on Home Depot's site. 166 dishwashers are Energy Star certified out of 310. Of standard-size only dishwashers, 136 out of 241 carry the Energy Star certification. That's a not insignificant portion of the dishwasher market that has not done this thing that you put in scare-quotes as "voluntary" and are still carried at the number two reseller of major appliances in the US. Walmart is not a significant reseller of dishwashers. At Lowes (the number one reseller), 396 out of 539 built-in dishwashers carry the Energy Star certification.
- malfist 2y ago
  > How many non-Energy-Star appliances do you see at Home Depot and Wal Mart I shop at lowes, not home depot or walmart, but lots. Look at all the fridges lowes sells: https://www.lowes.com/pl/refrigerators/4294857973?goToProdList=true https://www.lowes.com/pl/refrigerators/4294857973?goToProdLi... There's 994 total, 554 are energy star certified. Just over half. To take it even further, if I shop only what's in stock at my local store, there are 17 options. 11 Energy Star certified. There's no absence of options if you don't care about energy star certifications.

timr 2y ago

[flagged]

haswell 2y ago
> Sure, it's "voluntary" in the sense that if you don't do it, you won't be picked up by any major distributors. But now you’re describing market forces.
merrywhether 2y ago
That sounds like the market at work? Government doesn’t control what private companies stock, so it seems they’ve gotten some signal that the majority of their customers prefer energy-efficient products. If you’re a non-mainstream consumer, things are always going to be harder for you.
- timr 2y ago
  When you insert a giant labeling bureaucracy in the middle of it, then point to consumers doing what they would have done anyway, then no, it’s not “the market at work”. It’s a bit like making a Department of Deliciousness, and “voluntarily” labeling every cookie sold as part of the SweetStar program. My goodness…people like certified delicious products! Let’s hire more people…
sokoloff 2y ago
> How many non-Energy-Star appliances do you see at Home Depot and Wal Mart? I just did a search for dishwashers on Home Depot's site. 166 dishwashers are Energy Star certified out of 310. Of standard-size only dishwashers, 136 out of 241 carry the Energy Star certification. That's a not insignificant portion of the dishwasher market that has not done this thing that you put in scare-quotes as "voluntary" and are still carried at the number two reseller of major appliances in the US. Walmart is not a significant reseller of dishwashers. At Lowes (the number one reseller), 396 out of 539 built-in dishwashers carry the Energy Star certification.
malfist 2y ago
> How many non-Energy-Star appliances do you see at Home Depot and Wal Mart I shop at lowes, not home depot or walmart, but lots. Look at all the fridges lowes sells: https://www.lowes.com/pl/refrigerators/4294857973?goToProdList=true https://www.lowes.com/pl/refrigerators/4294857973?goToProdLi... There's 994 total, 554 are energy star certified. Just over half. To take it even further, if I shop only what's in stock at my local store, there are 17 options. 11 Energy Star certified. There's no absence of options if you don't care about energy star certifications.