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I’m completely missing your point. Your original comment has been flagged so I don’t see it, so I’m missing context. I, and I would guess most consumers, are p

I’m completely missing your point. Your original comment has been flagged so I don’t see it, so I’m missing context. I, and I would guess most consumers, are perfectly fine with the trade off of taking longer at lower cost (energy and water). I run mine overnight so it doesn’t matter. This is what I want as the default. On the few occasions I need it to run faster and am fine with the trade off of higher cost, I press a button and it’s there. What’s the problem?

timr 1y ago
[flagged]
- LeafItAlone 1y ago
  > getting rid of government agencies that do X rarely means that we get less X. Do you have any examples where that has been the case? >The fact that you would be perfectly happy choosing a more annoying appliance for lower overall energy consumption is merely validation of my belief that I have re-read my own comment multiple times and I am not seeing where I said that I would be an annoying appliance at all. In fact, I say the exact opposite that the appliance is doing exactly what I would want it to do for trade offs. Are you replying to the wrong comment?
  - timr 1y ago
    > Do you have any examples where that has been the case? I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but the department of education comes to mind as a bureaucracy that has no net influence on the amount of education occurring. (not totally fair, since the department of education is little more than an inefficient way of allocating block grants, but it's a particularly amusing example.)
- Muromec 1y ago
  It's not either or. The market being comptutational device needs information inputs to run, which government mandates are very helpful for. This coming from the administration that uses tariffs to force production to be happening in one place over another doesn't seem to be motivated by free market absolutist position either.
- malfist 1y ago
  Where do you see energy star mandating anything besides disclosure? If you want to be certified, sure, but that's voluntary. The only thing energy star is going is mandating companies inform their customer so the customer can decide and compare products. The free market is making you dishwashers use less energy, not energy star
  - timr 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - haswell 1y ago
      > Sure, it's "voluntary" in the sense that if you don't do it, you won't be picked up by any major distributors. But now you’re describing market forces.
    - merrywhether 1y ago
      That sounds like the market at work? Government doesn’t control what private companies stock, so it seems they’ve gotten some signal that the majority of their customers prefer energy-efficient products. If you’re a non-mainstream consumer, things are always going to be harder for you.
      - timr 1y ago
        When you insert a giant labeling bureaucracy in the middle of it, then point to consumers doing what they would have done anyway, then no, it’s not “the market at work”. It’s a bit like making a Department of Deliciousness, and “voluntarily” labeling every cookie sold as part of the SweetStar program. My goodness…people like certified delicious products! Let’s hire more people…
    - sokoloff 1y ago
      > How many non-Energy-Star appliances do you see at Home Depot and Wal Mart? I just did a search for dishwashers on Home Depot's site. 166 dishwashers are Energy Star certified out of 310. Of standard-size only dishwashers, 136 out of 241 carry the Energy Star certification. That's a not insignificant portion of the dishwasher market that has not done this thing that you put in scare-quotes as "voluntary" and are still carried at the number two reseller of major appliances in the US. Walmart is not a significant reseller of dishwashers. At Lowes (the number one reseller), 396 out of 539 built-in dishwashers carry the Energy Star certification.
- UncleMeat 1y ago
  Good news. EnergyStar isn't a mandate.

timr 1y ago

[flagged]

LeafItAlone 1y ago
> getting rid of government agencies that do X rarely means that we get less X. Do you have any examples where that has been the case? >The fact that you would be perfectly happy choosing a more annoying appliance for lower overall energy consumption is merely validation of my belief that I have re-read my own comment multiple times and I am not seeing where I said that I would be an annoying appliance at all. In fact, I say the exact opposite that the appliance is doing exactly what I would want it to do for trade offs. Are you replying to the wrong comment?
- timr 1y ago
  > Do you have any examples where that has been the case? I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but the department of education comes to mind as a bureaucracy that has no net influence on the amount of education occurring. (not totally fair, since the department of education is little more than an inefficient way of allocating block grants, but it's a particularly amusing example.)
Muromec 1y ago
It's not either or. The market being comptutational device needs information inputs to run, which government mandates are very helpful for. This coming from the administration that uses tariffs to force production to be happening in one place over another doesn't seem to be motivated by free market absolutist position either.
malfist 1y ago
Where do you see energy star mandating anything besides disclosure? If you want to be certified, sure, but that's voluntary. The only thing energy star is going is mandating companies inform their customer so the customer can decide and compare products. The free market is making you dishwashers use less energy, not energy star
- timr 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - haswell 1y ago
    > Sure, it's "voluntary" in the sense that if you don't do it, you won't be picked up by any major distributors. But now you’re describing market forces.
  - merrywhether 1y ago
    That sounds like the market at work? Government doesn’t control what private companies stock, so it seems they’ve gotten some signal that the majority of their customers prefer energy-efficient products. If you’re a non-mainstream consumer, things are always going to be harder for you.
    - timr 1y ago
      When you insert a giant labeling bureaucracy in the middle of it, then point to consumers doing what they would have done anyway, then no, it’s not “the market at work”. It’s a bit like making a Department of Deliciousness, and “voluntarily” labeling every cookie sold as part of the SweetStar program. My goodness…people like certified delicious products! Let’s hire more people…
  - sokoloff 1y ago
    > How many non-Energy-Star appliances do you see at Home Depot and Wal Mart? I just did a search for dishwashers on Home Depot's site. 166 dishwashers are Energy Star certified out of 310. Of standard-size only dishwashers, 136 out of 241 carry the Energy Star certification. That's a not insignificant portion of the dishwasher market that has not done this thing that you put in scare-quotes as "voluntary" and are still carried at the number two reseller of major appliances in the US. Walmart is not a significant reseller of dishwashers. At Lowes (the number one reseller), 396 out of 539 built-in dishwashers carry the Energy Star certification.
UncleMeat 1y ago
Good news. EnergyStar isn't a mandate.