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This is so frustrating. Energy Star has been a huge success over the past 30 years. It's (now) widely supported by industry, has reduced the TCO to consumers f
by timoth3y 1y ago
This is so frustrating.
Energy Star has been a huge success over the past 30 years. It's (now) widely supported by industry, has reduced the TCO to consumers for most household appliances, and results in hundreds of billions of kWh of electricity saved every year.
Energy Star is not some tree-hugging, drum-circle, feel-good program.
The US urgently needs to expand and modernize our grid. Every GW of power saved, is GW of generation and transmission capacity that we don't have to build and maintain.
- jstanley 1y ago[flagged]
- bravetraveler 1y agoDoubtful, of my four displays only one behaves this way
- SECProto 1y agoNo. I have several monitors of similar age, and their startup times vary significantly. It's a result of manufacturer choices, but not some nefarious impact of labels that tell you how much power a thing uses.
- FirmwareBurner 1y agoHow many various inputs does the display on your phone need to scan and handshake?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- timr 1y agoEnergyStar has nothing to do with "modernizing the grid". It is, however, why any new dishwasher in the US takes like 4 hours to finish a load, unless you put it into non-bureaucratic mode. Meanwhile, we're driving energy consumption into the stratosphere with datacenters full of completely unregulated [1] GPUs that are mining scamcoins and generating incorrect search results. The usual libertarian point applies here: just because the government stops doing X doesn't mean that you automatically get less X. Particularly in the case of EnergyStar, I think it's well into the tail of diminishing returns on investment -- manufacturers don't have any incentive to start producing power-guzzling appliances when power costs are increasing. Its the sort of program that sounds good in theory, and maybe made sense at one point, but doesn't hold up to scrutiny. [1] I'm not arguing for regulation on GPUs...just pointing out that EnergyStar isn't touching the currently important part of the problem.
- stonogo 1y agoI think you'll find this is a result of the phosphate ban in the 90s. Detergent got less effective, so cycle times got longer to compensate. Same problem with clothes washers. A spoonfull of trisodium phosphate goes a long way, as long as you're ok with algae blooms downstream.
- timr 1y ago[flagged]
- TheOtherHobbes 1y agoI'm not seeing your point. Are you arguing that giving consumers a choice between a slow cheap cycle and an expensive fast cycle is somehow a bad thing?
- timr 1y ago> Are you arguing that giving consumers a choice between a slow cheap cycle and an expensive fast cycle is somehow a bad thing? No. I'm saying that you don't need a government bureaucracy mandating it. Moreover, you definitely don't need one mandating ever-more-strict energy consumption limits on energy uses that are not driving the consumption problem, which inevitably run up against hard physical limits (e.g. warm water works better for washing dishes). Take the argument to the point of absurdity: should we have an EnergyStar rule on doorbell efficiency? The same line of reasoning applies, but by golly...if we had one, I'm sure we'd be sitting here arguing about why doorbells have to be barely audible in order to save the planet.
- waynesonfire 1y agoCompanies arn't going to spend money to implement modes that save electricity unless they have to. The motivation can come about as a result of market competition or governance. Sometimes you need governance because of market dynamics, e.g. monopolies. A better fix would be to expand the scope of Energy Star. I'm sure you'll still be able to find a suitable door bell just as easily as you discovered the quick wash button on your dish washer. And, to take your argument to absurdity, we'd still have lead paint and no nutrition labels.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- timr 1y agoEnergyStar has nothing to do with "modernizing the grid". It is, however, why any new dishwasher in the US takes like 4 hours to finish a load, unless you put it into non-bureaucratic mode. Meanwhile, we're driving energy consumption into the stratosphere with datacenters full of completely unregulated [1] GPUs that are mining scamcoins and generating incorrect search results. The usual libertarian point applies here: just because the government stops doing X doesn't mean that you automatically get less X. Particularly in the case of EnergyStar, I think it's well into the tail of diminishing returns on investment -- manufacturers don't have any incentive to start producing power-guzzling appliances when power costs are increasing. Its the sort of program that sounds good in theory, and maybe made sense at one point, but doesn't hold up to scrutiny. [1] I'm not arguing for regulation on GPUs...just pointing out that EnergyStar isn't touching the currently important part of the problem.
- roxolotl 1y agoThe problem is manufacturers also have no incentives to display the information EnergyStar provides if not forced to do so. And sure Americans care about energy costs but looking at the car market you can see Americans don’t actually care to make choices that save them money in the long run. Ford doesn’t even produce sedans anymore.
- _mlbt 1y agoThat’s not really a fair comparison. Fuel consumption is just one of many important factors to consider when car shopping. For instance, a small sedan doesn’t fit my entire immediate family. For some parts of the country 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive are practically essential. Ground clearance can be an issue if you live on a country dirt road. EV charging stations can be unavailable nearby or in sufficient numbers. Some people’s work and hobbies require them to own pickup trucks.
- phlipski 1y agoMost people (and I'm talking 85%+) do NOT need 4wd or ground clearance. I get so tired of these excuses being trotted out by truck owners. Don't get your panties in a wad when people say you don't need a truck. I get it - YOU do happen to tow a 10,000lb boat or trailer every day for work/play. Fine. Nobody is taking your truck. But the vast majority of truck owners do NOT NEED a truck. They WANT a truck. And that is fine too - drive what you want! Just be honest with yourself and others....
- anonymousiam 1y agoEnergy Star can be frustrating as well. My latest laptop (Lenovo ThinkPad) has an Energy Star rating. To get this, they need to do things like turn off the power to the audio pre-amp if there's no sound being played. When a sound is ready to be played, latency is undesirable, so it gets pushed to the amp before the amp has powered up. The result is some fraction of a second of missing sound, and also an annoying click through the speakers when the amp is powered down after the sound stops. I would rather have sound without these issues, even if my computer consumes an extra 100mW at idle to keep the sound system ready. I'm aware that most sound chipsets allow a user override that keeps the circuits on, but the this newer chipset doesn't seem to implement the feature correctly. No combination of arguments to the linux sound system, or loadable modules seems to keep the sound circuits from switching to standby.
- Pwntastic 1y agoThat sounds like Lenovo just being bad? Certainly they could fix the issue but instead chose the cheaper option.
- anonymousiam 1y agoThe cheaper option would have been to not implement the Energy Star feature that dynamically powers the chipset on and off.
- jack0813 1y agoInteresting. I had similar things from other machines, and the solution is to keep a silent audio file playing in the background at all times, then there is no latency.
- stefanfisk 1y agoAFAICT my MBP M1 is energy star certified but has no such issue. Might it just be that the Lenovo has a bad implementation?
- mrandish 1y agoI've had problems with modern monitors shutting themselves off if they don't detect a signal in something like five or ten seconds, which is far too short when I'm trying to debug a PC having boot issues, configure a multi-monitor setup (like a 3-screen virtual pinball cabinet) or even just figure out which HDMI cable is which on the PC end. I don't mind the auto-off feature but the incredibly short time period is unnecessary and the delay time isn't adjustable (at least on the LG monitors I have). This over-aggressiveness turns a good feature into a problem forcing me to completely disable power saving. Which is sad because the biggest savings of the feature are when a screen is left on for hours when the PC is off or disconnected (which I don't do anyway, as the entire system is on a smart power strip). A monitor should hunt for a valid signal for at least 45 or 60 seconds by default before auto-offing itself. Another "power saving gone awry" issue is that USB selective suspend can cause wireless mice to stutter after not moving for just a few seconds. I think this is due to lag in the wake-up time. Unfortunately, the interface doesn't have any time adjustment, so I have to just turn selective suspend.
- baranul 1y ago> Energy Star is not some tree-hugging, drum-circle, feel-good program. It saves people money. Less spent on electric bills and tax money can be used elsewhere.
- hulitu 1y ago> It saves people money. Less spent on electric bills and tax money can be used elsewhere. This is what they claim. The reality is a much different.