5 ms·

> tipping always led to worse delivery success rates What does this mean? If you don't tip on doordash in the US, your order just arrives a few minutes later t

by NavinF 1y ago

> tipping always led to worse delivery success rates What does this mean? If you don't tip on doordash in the US, your order just arrives a few minutes later than usual since the auction starts at a lower price and drivers will reject the lowest prices

darth_avocado 1y ago
> A few minutes later than usual That’s an understatement. Your order sits on the shelf for while before someone picks up if you don’t tip, sometimes more than 30 mins, until DoorDash forces some poor underpaid driver to pick it up sometimes with incentives, but mostly threats on their livelihood. In some cases, drivers do pick it up, don’t deliver, eat your stuff, or drive in other directions to focus on other orders. Orders without tips do extremely poorly these days.
- adityamwagh 1y ago
  A tip is essentially an extra 15-20% pseudo-tax on food delivery (at least in the US-where some people feel entitled to be tipped just for doing their job).
  - tptacek 1y ago
    No, a tip is a variable component of the price of having your burrito delivered to you in a private taxi cab, and if you don't want to pay it, go pick up your own burrito.
    - xingped 1y ago
      No, I'm already paying for a delivery service fee. A tip is an extra thank you. If restaurants charge me a mandatory fee ("tip") on top of my food price, there's no extra tip on top of that.
      - tptacek 1y ago
        I mean, you can choose to pay or not pay for the service. I'm not saying you should go out of your way to patronize businesses that charge you more for your burrito taxi than you think it's worth. But if your burritos arrive cold because you are the lowest bidder for the service, I think you've lost some of the moral high ground to complain.
        xingped 1y ago
        If food delivery services were presented to end users as some sort of bidding model, sure, but it's not. It's presented as simply as "you order food, food gets delivered to you". There's no ability to see how my order might be affected by how much I pay. For the record, I never use food delivery services because the upcharge is absurd. If I want food delivery it'll be pizza and that's it. At least that's an honest transaction and I don't have to wonder when my food will arrive or how cold it might be.
        elliotto 1y ago
        I have a high moral high ground because I don't use these services at all due to poor treatment of employees. It's difficult to conflate the moral high ground with maximal participation in a weird auction format when people are just trying to buy a burrito. In most other countries (like mine Australia) the price of the good is the advertised price. There is no extra weird moral based financial game played on top.
        tptacek 1y ago
        I mean, OK, but they're treated badly because they're not paid enough, which makes tipping a strange complaint! You could use the service, if you wanted. Just pay what it really costs.
        koolba 1y ago
        > You could use the service, if you wanted. Just pay what it really costs. Then they should have whatever that is be the actual displayed cost. As it stands now, there’s an often delivery fee which apparently does not guarantee and reasonable delivery time. How does that make any sense?
    - what 1y ago
      No, the service fee is the price of having a burrito delivered.
    - renewiltord 1y ago
      To be honest, this is all nonsense. When I Doordash I don't really tip and things are fine. My wife tips 10% and she's fine. But I think it's pretty funny that you're going around defending pricing dark patterns with the latest Twitter-trend-du-jour. It's a pity you couldn't refer to the burrito as "slop" eaten only by the "deeply unserious" who need to "go to therapy" because you're "begging them, please read a book". Maybe a little description of how the "enshittification" of the delivery process leads to "ghoulish" requests that demonstrate "late-stage capitalism" in a "mask-off moment".
  - 9283409232 1y ago
    > A tip is essentially an extra 15-20% pseudo-tax on food delivery Then what's the delivery fee?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - chii 1y ago
      to make the delivery fee seem lower than it really is.
    - delfinom 1y ago
      Extra profit for the app, on top of the 30% they charge the restaurant. They do technically pull from the delivery fee for the base offering to drivers, but they certainly don't start the offering there.
    - dagw 1y ago
      The fee is to make the delivery happen at all, the tip is to make it happen in a timely manner.
  - LeafItAlone 1y ago
    >at least in the US-where some people feel entitled to be tipped just for doing their job In the US, many food-related jobs are paid rates predicated on the workers being tipped. Sure there are some laws requiring the business to make up the difference to minimum wage if not met (over an average), but that’s still only up to minimum wage which is criminally low in many states. Some states have started requiring the companies running app-based gig jobs to also ensure a minimum wage is paid, but not many yet. US tipping culture is crazy.
- NavinF 1y ago
  In the bay area we're talking 25min vs 30min. It's a pretty simple auction: The price increases until someone accepts. The driver has no idea how much you tipped. Note the implications: If every driver in your area accepts orders at the same price, doordash will absorb the entire tip from every order. I dunno why people make up FUD instead of just doing an image search for what the driver's UI looks like.
  - darth_avocado 1y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash_drivers/comments/1kfu6ah/thats_how_we_do_ot_in_nj_no_tip_you_order_will/ https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash_drivers/comments/1kfu6ah/t... Edit: while it is true that base pay does go up if an order gets declined, it doesn’t ALWAYS go up and if it does, it takes a while to get it to a reasonable rate. That is when your order just sits there.
  - LeafItAlone 1y ago
    >The driver has no idea how much you tipped. It’s my understanding that it may be different in some markets, but generally while drivers may not know exactly how much you tip above a certain amount venue accepting the order, they do seem to generally know if you haven’t tipped or have tipped a tiny amount. https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash/comments/12d8p18/do_drivers_see_the_tip_before_accepting_the_order/ https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash/comments/12d8p18/do_driver...
- PaulRobinson 1y ago
  That model will die within weeks in Europe. Customers will not correlate poor tipping with poor service, because tipping is considered so culturally different. If that behaviour starts to happen, customers will just use it once or twice, have a poor experience and decide "nope, that doesn't work for me, I'll not use that any more". In the UK Deliveroo offers me a chance to tip when making an order but only really "pushes" it after delivery, conforming to the UK sense of a tip being in response to great service. I've only been minded to do it once when a driver genuinely did something exceptional when I messed up an order - so he got a £5 tip on a £2.50 delivery fee from a restaurant about a mile away from me. DoorDash could actually try something innovative here - they could eradicate tips, and push service fees up a little, and make a big deal of it in their marketing that their gig economy riders are getting a great deal. If it catches on, you could find this ripple out into other services like Uber, and perhaps change the tone on tipping in general in other scenarios, too.
  - LeafItAlone 1y ago
    >Customers will not correlate poor tipping with poor service DoorDash (at least in some markets in the US) has a message indicating the correlation between no tip and slow delivery time. https://i.redd.it/dp2fbjefbw5e1.jpeg https://i.redd.it/dp2fbjefbw5e1.jpeg
    - PaulRobinson 1y ago
      Yeah, that's not going to work. People will hate that in Europe, it's why none of the established players (and there are several), do it.
    - selfhoster11 1y ago
      That sort of notice will outright make me not tip.
Spivak 1y ago
I wish they just exposed the auction system to make the whole tipping thing moot. A slider that sets your delivery fee that updates based on demand / driver availability would eliminate a lot of the awkward social dynamics. Low fee slower less likely to get a driver. High fee faster drivers will take your order over others.
nmstoker 1y ago
It means if you add a tip there's a higher probability of them screwing up the delivery, either not finding my flat (apartment) at all or being severely delayed because they sent someone who cannot read the simple English directions. If you do not add a tip then this tends not to happen. It's the inverse of what you'd expec. It may be some side-effect of Deliveroo asking for the tip in advance - one theory is that the delivery agent thinks I'll give a cash in hand tip and therefore tries harder; or it could be something more obscure, eg perhaps the illiterate delivery agents (of which there are many in London now) generally work faster but cope less well with any modest complexity and they are being rewarded by an algorithm that does not take that into account.
m000 1y ago
Wait, wait... You now need to tip BEFORE receiving any service at all? WTF is wrong with you USA?
- NavinF 1y ago
  I explained why you don't need to tip before delivery; your food will just arrive 5min later. Ignore the replies making up fake consequences. He's clearly never used doordash.

by NavinF 1y ago

darth_avocado 1y ago

> A few minutes later than usual That’s an understatement. Your order sits on the shelf for while before someone picks up if you don’t tip, sometimes more than 30 mins, until DoorDash forces some poor underpaid driver to pick it up sometimes with incentives, but mostly threats on their livelihood. In some cases, drivers do pick it up, don’t deliver, eat your stuff, or drive in other directions to focus on other orders. Orders without tips do extremely poorly these days.

adityamwagh 1y ago
A tip is essentially an extra 15-20% pseudo-tax on food delivery (at least in the US-where some people feel entitled to be tipped just for doing their job).
- tptacek 1y ago
  No, a tip is a variable component of the price of having your burrito delivered to you in a private taxi cab, and if you don't want to pay it, go pick up your own burrito.
  - xingped 1y ago
    No, I'm already paying for a delivery service fee. A tip is an extra thank you. If restaurants charge me a mandatory fee ("tip") on top of my food price, there's no extra tip on top of that.
    - tptacek 1y ago
      I mean, you can choose to pay or not pay for the service. I'm not saying you should go out of your way to patronize businesses that charge you more for your burrito taxi than you think it's worth. But if your burritos arrive cold because you are the lowest bidder for the service, I think you've lost some of the moral high ground to complain.
      - xingped 1y ago
        If food delivery services were presented to end users as some sort of bidding model, sure, but it's not. It's presented as simply as "you order food, food gets delivered to you". There's no ability to see how my order might be affected by how much I pay. For the record, I never use food delivery services because the upcharge is absurd. If I want food delivery it'll be pizza and that's it. At least that's an honest transaction and I don't have to wonder when my food will arrive or how cold it might be.
      - elliotto 1y ago
        I have a high moral high ground because I don't use these services at all due to poor treatment of employees. It's difficult to conflate the moral high ground with maximal participation in a weird auction format when people are just trying to buy a burrito. In most other countries (like mine Australia) the price of the good is the advertised price. There is no extra weird moral based financial game played on top.
        tptacek 1y ago
        I mean, OK, but they're treated badly because they're not paid enough, which makes tipping a strange complaint! You could use the service, if you wanted. Just pay what it really costs.
        koolba 1y ago
        > You could use the service, if you wanted. Just pay what it really costs. Then they should have whatever that is be the actual displayed cost. As it stands now, there’s an often delivery fee which apparently does not guarantee and reasonable delivery time. How does that make any sense?
  - what 1y ago
    No, the service fee is the price of having a burrito delivered.
  - renewiltord 1y ago
    To be honest, this is all nonsense. When I Doordash I don't really tip and things are fine. My wife tips 10% and she's fine. But I think it's pretty funny that you're going around defending pricing dark patterns with the latest Twitter-trend-du-jour. It's a pity you couldn't refer to the burrito as "slop" eaten only by the "deeply unserious" who need to "go to therapy" because you're "begging them, please read a book". Maybe a little description of how the "enshittification" of the delivery process leads to "ghoulish" requests that demonstrate "late-stage capitalism" in a "mask-off moment".
- 9283409232 1y ago
  > A tip is essentially an extra 15-20% pseudo-tax on food delivery Then what's the delivery fee?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - chii 1y ago
    to make the delivery fee seem lower than it really is.
  - delfinom 1y ago
    Extra profit for the app, on top of the 30% they charge the restaurant. They do technically pull from the delivery fee for the base offering to drivers, but they certainly don't start the offering there.
  - dagw 1y ago
    The fee is to make the delivery happen at all, the tip is to make it happen in a timely manner.
- LeafItAlone 1y ago
  >at least in the US-where some people feel entitled to be tipped just for doing their job In the US, many food-related jobs are paid rates predicated on the workers being tipped. Sure there are some laws requiring the business to make up the difference to minimum wage if not met (over an average), but that’s still only up to minimum wage which is criminally low in many states. Some states have started requiring the companies running app-based gig jobs to also ensure a minimum wage is paid, but not many yet. US tipping culture is crazy.
NavinF 1y ago
In the bay area we're talking 25min vs 30min. It's a pretty simple auction: The price increases until someone accepts. The driver has no idea how much you tipped. Note the implications: If every driver in your area accepts orders at the same price, doordash will absorb the entire tip from every order. I dunno why people make up FUD instead of just doing an image search for what the driver's UI looks like.
- darth_avocado 1y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash_drivers/comments/1kfu6ah/thats_how_we_do_ot_in_nj_no_tip_you_order_will/ https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash_drivers/comments/1kfu6ah/t... Edit: while it is true that base pay does go up if an order gets declined, it doesn’t ALWAYS go up and if it does, it takes a while to get it to a reasonable rate. That is when your order just sits there.
- LeafItAlone 1y ago
  >The driver has no idea how much you tipped. It’s my understanding that it may be different in some markets, but generally while drivers may not know exactly how much you tip above a certain amount venue accepting the order, they do seem to generally know if you haven’t tipped or have tipped a tiny amount. https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash/comments/12d8p18/do_drivers_see_the_tip_before_accepting_the_order/ https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash/comments/12d8p18/do_driver...
PaulRobinson 1y ago
That model will die within weeks in Europe. Customers will not correlate poor tipping with poor service, because tipping is considered so culturally different. If that behaviour starts to happen, customers will just use it once or twice, have a poor experience and decide "nope, that doesn't work for me, I'll not use that any more". In the UK Deliveroo offers me a chance to tip when making an order but only really "pushes" it after delivery, conforming to the UK sense of a tip being in response to great service. I've only been minded to do it once when a driver genuinely did something exceptional when I messed up an order - so he got a £5 tip on a £2.50 delivery fee from a restaurant about a mile away from me. DoorDash could actually try something innovative here - they could eradicate tips, and push service fees up a little, and make a big deal of it in their marketing that their gig economy riders are getting a great deal. If it catches on, you could find this ripple out into other services like Uber, and perhaps change the tone on tipping in general in other scenarios, too.
- LeafItAlone 1y ago
  >Customers will not correlate poor tipping with poor service DoorDash (at least in some markets in the US) has a message indicating the correlation between no tip and slow delivery time. https://i.redd.it/dp2fbjefbw5e1.jpeg https://i.redd.it/dp2fbjefbw5e1.jpeg
  - PaulRobinson 1y ago
    Yeah, that's not going to work. People will hate that in Europe, it's why none of the established players (and there are several), do it.
  - selfhoster11 1y ago
    That sort of notice will outright make me not tip.

Spivak 1y ago

I wish they just exposed the auction system to make the whole tipping thing moot. A slider that sets your delivery fee that updates based on demand / driver availability would eliminate a lot of the awkward social dynamics. Low fee slower less likely to get a driver. High fee faster drivers will take your order over others.

nmstoker 1y ago

It means if you add a tip there's a higher probability of them screwing up the delivery, either not finding my flat (apartment) at all or being severely delayed because they sent someone who cannot read the simple English directions. If you do not add a tip then this tends not to happen. It's the inverse of what you'd expec. It may be some side-effect of Deliveroo asking for the tip in advance - one theory is that the delivery agent thinks I'll give a cash in hand tip and therefore tries harder; or it could be something more obscure, eg perhaps the illiterate delivery agents (of which there are many in London now) generally work faster but cope less well with any modest complexity and they are being rewarded by an algorithm that does not take that into account.

m000 1y ago

Wait, wait... You now need to tip BEFORE receiving any service at all? WTF is wrong with you USA?

NavinF 1y ago
I explained why you don't need to tip before delivery; your food will just arrive 5min later. Ignore the replies making up fake consequences. He's clearly never used doordash.