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This is a good reminder that the mythologized "Code of the West" wasn't some noble cowboy ethic—it was born out of postwar resentment, racial violence, and fron

This is a good reminder that the mythologized "Code of the West" wasn't some noble cowboy ethic—it was born out of postwar resentment, racial violence, and frontier lawlessness. It's easy to forget that much of what's now framed as rugged individualism was originally just unchecked aggression from people who couldn't handle losing a war. The romanticization of this period by early 20th-century writers smoothed over a lot of ugly history.

technothrasher 1y ago
My great grandfather wrote down some stories of his life in Southern Kansas at the time, and I was always struck by how less exciting it was than you’d think. He talks about taking a horse and cart alone into Oklahoma “Indian territory” and how he scrounged up an old pistol because he was afraid of being scalped. He spends two nights camped out and every group of native Americans that pass by him just entirely ignores him. He also talks about going to see the Dalton gang just after their famous shootout, and mentions how it was weird to see the bodies just laid out and people cutting scraps of clothing off them as souvenirs. He said it wasn’t romantic at all, just depressing.
- vintagedave 1y ago
  That's really interesting in its own way (ie, non-exciting vs stories maybe, but really fascinating.) Have you thought of digitising it and putting it online?
  - technothrasher 1y ago
    I did indeed transcribe them all digitally to preserve them. Most of them probably would only be interesting to the family. The only other one that has general interest was his time as a water fetcher and firewood collector during the gathering before the Oklahoma Land Rush.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  > He talks about taking a horse and cart alone into Oklahoma “Indian territory” and how he scrounged up an old pistol because he was afraid of being scalped. He spends two nights camped out and every group of native Americans that pass by him just entirely ignores him. The modern version is people who are afraid of Chicago.
  - starspangled 1y ago
    > The modern version is people who are afraid of Chicago. I thought America has a serious gun problem. Or is it so exaggerated that it is irrational to be afraid of a city that's in or around the top 10 highest rates of gun homicides in the country?
    - ty6853 1y ago
      No it's not. Last time I had a vehicle failure in a top 10 city the locals noticed, and put a gun to my head. You're a straight up moron if you sleep on the streets of Chicago without a weapon. Here's a hint, get on a rooftop, out of sight.
      - bitexploder 1y ago
        Chicago is not a survival video game. If you are stranded call the police.
        ceejayoz 1y ago
        The police are not going to come out - Chicago or otherwise - for "my car broke down". You'll wait hours for a five minute dismissive interaction. You call a tow truck.
        ty6853 1y ago
        Lol maybe in Evanston.
      - only-one1701 1y ago
        One time this happened to me. But then when they came I used aikido to disarm them whole flipping the gun out of their hands (all of them at the same time). They were so impressed they made me the leader of their primitive tribe and I started collecting resources and completing mini-missions until I became a high enough level to walk through the sewers until I found the final boss and hit the right combo to kill him.
potato3732842 1y ago
When you go see renaissance cultural stuff romanticizing the ancient romans and greeks do you crap all over it on the basis that the societies they're romanticizing had spicy takes on women or that their economies were comparatively primitive? Are you going to complain that they didn't have running water and electricity in the old west while you're at it? The past was generally rife with problems that hadn't yet been solved. Some of those were technical and some of them social. But dismissing it all as racism or whatever is misleading at best. People (generally, I'm sure there's a few exceptions) aren't romanticizing the racism or the violence or the outhouses or the lack of antibiotics or any other negatives that have since been solved or improved upon, when they romanticize these periods of history.
- analog31 1y ago
  Texas is a little bit closer to home, if you will. There are still people alive today who believe that aspects of it -- mythical or real -- are fundamental to our culture, or a model for contemporary society.
- cratermoon 1y ago
  I will push back on people who romanticize and emulate those societies, and in the US in the 21st century there are plenty of folks who would like to see the country return to when times were supposedly "great".
  - noworriesnate 1y ago
    I’m glad that the status quo works for you, but it doesn’t work for most people which is why there is so much upheaval right now. It’s screwed up that our society makes raising children so hard. It’s screwed up that our society is so low trust. Those are two things that were much better when we were setting the west and it’s worth exploring how we can return somewhat to those times. By the way, I don’t think anyone wants to return fully to those times. The question is, on what ways can we return and get the maximum benefit for our people? That is a conversation worth having.
    - 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
_DeadFred_ 1y ago
The Confederate diaspora was relatively small compared to immigrants and Northern-born settlers.

technothrasher 1y ago

My great grandfather wrote down some stories of his life in Southern Kansas at the time, and I was always struck by how less exciting it was than you’d think. He talks about taking a horse and cart alone into Oklahoma “Indian territory” and how he scrounged up an old pistol because he was afraid of being scalped. He spends two nights camped out and every group of native Americans that pass by him just entirely ignores him. He also talks about going to see the Dalton gang just after their famous shootout, and mentions how it was weird to see the bodies just laid out and people cutting scraps of clothing off them as souvenirs. He said it wasn’t romantic at all, just depressing.

vintagedave 1y ago
That's really interesting in its own way (ie, non-exciting vs stories maybe, but really fascinating.) Have you thought of digitising it and putting it online?
- technothrasher 1y ago
  I did indeed transcribe them all digitally to preserve them. Most of them probably would only be interesting to the family. The only other one that has general interest was his time as a water fetcher and firewood collector during the gathering before the Oklahoma Land Rush.
ceejayoz 1y ago
> He talks about taking a horse and cart alone into Oklahoma “Indian territory” and how he scrounged up an old pistol because he was afraid of being scalped. He spends two nights camped out and every group of native Americans that pass by him just entirely ignores him. The modern version is people who are afraid of Chicago.
- starspangled 1y ago
  > The modern version is people who are afraid of Chicago. I thought America has a serious gun problem. Or is it so exaggerated that it is irrational to be afraid of a city that's in or around the top 10 highest rates of gun homicides in the country?
  - ty6853 1y ago
    No it's not. Last time I had a vehicle failure in a top 10 city the locals noticed, and put a gun to my head. You're a straight up moron if you sleep on the streets of Chicago without a weapon. Here's a hint, get on a rooftop, out of sight.
    - bitexploder 1y ago
      Chicago is not a survival video game. If you are stranded call the police.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        The police are not going to come out - Chicago or otherwise - for "my car broke down". You'll wait hours for a five minute dismissive interaction. You call a tow truck.
      - ty6853 1y ago
        Lol maybe in Evanston.
    - only-one1701 1y ago
      One time this happened to me. But then when they came I used aikido to disarm them whole flipping the gun out of their hands (all of them at the same time). They were so impressed they made me the leader of their primitive tribe and I started collecting resources and completing mini-missions until I became a high enough level to walk through the sewers until I found the final boss and hit the right combo to kill him.

potato3732842 1y ago

When you go see renaissance cultural stuff romanticizing the ancient romans and greeks do you crap all over it on the basis that the societies they're romanticizing had spicy takes on women or that their economies were comparatively primitive? Are you going to complain that they didn't have running water and electricity in the old west while you're at it? The past was generally rife with problems that hadn't yet been solved. Some of those were technical and some of them social. But dismissing it all as racism or whatever is misleading at best. People (generally, I'm sure there's a few exceptions) aren't romanticizing the racism or the violence or the outhouses or the lack of antibiotics or any other negatives that have since been solved or improved upon, when they romanticize these periods of history.

analog31 1y ago
Texas is a little bit closer to home, if you will. There are still people alive today who believe that aspects of it -- mythical or real -- are fundamental to our culture, or a model for contemporary society.
cratermoon 1y ago
I will push back on people who romanticize and emulate those societies, and in the US in the 21st century there are plenty of folks who would like to see the country return to when times were supposedly "great".
- noworriesnate 1y ago
  I’m glad that the status quo works for you, but it doesn’t work for most people which is why there is so much upheaval right now. It’s screwed up that our society makes raising children so hard. It’s screwed up that our society is so low trust. Those are two things that were much better when we were setting the west and it’s worth exploring how we can return somewhat to those times. By the way, I don’t think anyone wants to return fully to those times. The question is, on what ways can we return and get the maximum benefit for our people? That is a conversation worth having.
  - 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

_DeadFred_ 1y ago

The Confederate diaspora was relatively small compared to immigrants and Northern-born settlers.