6 ms·
Cuttlefish 'talk' with their arms, study reveals
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.04.13.648584v3 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.04.13.648584v3
- luotuoshangdui 2y agoCuttlefish are incredibly intelligent.
- enneff 2y agoThis is so cool to see. When I used to do a lot of SCUBA diving I would sometimes have long staring competitions with cuttlefish. Of course it’s impossible to know for sure, but I always got the sense there was a lot going on behind those eyes.
- go_elmo 2y agoSuper cool! Imo kind of makes sense - think these sort of problems (communication) are general across actors and science seems to confirm some cases (between plants / funghi, cuddlefish, mamals..). Were not as unique as we think & thats freeing.
- damnitbuilds 2y agoSo if I drum my fingers on the table, and my colleague gets visibly annoyed by it, these researchers think I am "talking" to him ?
- anotheryou 2y agoOf course that's communcation. "Talking" might be a bit overpromising, but definitely some comms. Don't nitpick, the core is true. :P eyeroll
- damnitbuilds 2y agoThis is supposed to be science, terminology matters: They state that tentacle waving serves "as a communication system between cuttlefish." Merely showing that a thing reacts to another thing doing something in a certain way is NOT showing the existence of a communication system between them.
- Dylan16807 2y agoWeird. I would say that idle finger drumming is of course not communication.
- anotheryou 2y ago> Communication is the process of exchanging information between individuals through various means, such as speaking, writing, or using body language. It involves a sender conveying a message to a receiver, who then interprets and responds to that message. (some ai said this, but I think AI should be perfect for defining common words :)
- anotheryou 2y agoWell to be fair finger drumming can, but does not have to be purpuseful communication. You can drum your fingers because you are bored, not to signal to the outside that you are bored. Strictly speaking me picking up on your boredness because you drum your fingers makes it communication anyways I think :). A better example would be waving at someone, communicating "hello / look at me / I see you / here / I'm happy to see you / goodbye"
- pixl97 2y agoReading through this thread you can see how many people on HN don't understand non-verbal communication (note anotheryou, this isn't directed at you, you seem to get it). I do wonder if some of these people realize they may not be neurotypical, even if just slightly. A huge amount of human behaviors and communications are encoded how we move and how our face reacts. If for some reason you can't pick up on or interpret this, then human behavior can be quite confusing.
- Dylan16807 2y agoIn some sense everything is communication but that's going too far for "talking". In the more normal sense finger drumming can be communication but 90+% of the time it's not.
- jjk166 2y ago
- 542354234235 2y agoIf I flip you off for being annoying, I would definitely be communicating something as specific as if I’d used words.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoYes, you’ll communicate your emotional immaturity. With words we might be able to solve the problem.
- 7thaccount 2y agoDon't forget about sign language.
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoSign language is a language for people who have serious problems communicating with spoken language. So yes, definitely don’t forget about words communicated using sign language.
- timschmidt 2y agoThe signing community disagrees strongly with this take, as sign is an expressive artform in it's own right. Hearing folks can as easily appreciate a talented and expressive signer as a vocalist. And it's possible to express things through sign which are impossible to express with speech.
- thaumasiotes 2y agoHeather Dale wrote a song about Gawain and the Green Knight, and produced a video in which a deaf storyteller tells the story while the song plays. (I don't think the story is an exact match to the song, but I assume it's fairly close.) The storyteller uses some very impressive body language; it's great to see. It made me wonder if this is a particular strength of deaf storytelling, given that the audience has to be watching closely anyway. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTtlPUNGs3Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTtlPUNGs3Q
- lucyv 2y agoThe word "talk" doesn't appear anywhere in the article besides the title.
- damnitbuilds 2y agoThey grossly overstate what they have shown. What they have actually shown - that cuttlefish react to another cuttlefish waving its tentacles - is clearly not showing that tentacle waving "serves as a communication system between cuttlefish.
- bongodongobob 2y agoI think you grossly overstate your expertise in marine communication studies.
- sethammons 2y agoHow would you define communication between two entities? What threshold of data needs to be conveyed? Can communication be unidirectional?
- jjk166 2y agoWell data needs to be conveyed, as in there has to actually be a message. If one person yawns and that causes you to yawn, that is not evidence of communication - the first person was almost certainly not trying to send any information and you received none. Mimicking another's arm movement could be just as meaningless.
- NonHyloMorph 2y agoNo that is precicsely communication, but nothing indicazes that is "talk". Communication is the "lower" phenomenon ghen talk/speech. Involuntary body processes communicate something in us sapiensapiens and we are sure tjat animals communicate. But do they talk... if we say "talk" ("sprechen") that entails the whole of what natural languages do and is quite different.
- 2y ago
- dfxm12 2y agoI'm not going to speak for these researchers, but I will suggest you read up on the concept of scare quotes.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- kozlovsky 2y ago> The exact meaning behind these arm signs remains unclear. The researchers observed them in various contexts – during mating, hunting, defensive situations, and sometimes spontaneously. This suggests the signs might serve multiple purposes depending on the situation. Can these signs be an alphabet of some language?
- A_D_E_P_T 2y agoSquid are no big deal, but people should really stop eating cuttlefish and large octopi. By all accounts -- and, by now, there are very many -- they seem highly intelligent and playful.
- aeonik 2y agoIf I donate my body to octopus stockfeed after I die (after organs are harvested for those in need obviously), does that give me a pass?
- deepvibrations 2y agoCan I kill and eat your pets and/or the pets of your friends/family? I will donate my body as stockfeed to those remaining pets that your family/friends have after I die. Does that give me a pass?
- rad_gruchalski 2y agoBut which pets do you mean. Pigs? Cows? Goats? A dog? A turtle?
- infecto 2y agoLots of places still eat horses, dogs or other animals. I may make a decision to not eat those but I don’t judge folks that do.
- coddingtonbear 2y agoThere’s a clear difference between deciding not to eat something for cultural reasons than deciding not to eat something because it’s an intelligent, thinking creature.
- infecto 2y agoNo it’s not, hence the conversation around it. I am glad you can draw that line clearly but don’t impose others to do the same.
- CommenterPerson 2y agoThis is why I turned vegetarian. Fish, Chickens, Cows, Goats and other creatures are sentient.
- deepvibrations 2y agoLogically, it may make more sense to keep eating beef/some meat and instead give up dairy. Not only is it probably healthier, but the pain inflicted in the dairy industry is arguably worse per calorie than that of milk. - Forced (artificial) insemination - Calf separation (within 24hrs of birth, causes distress to mother too) - Male calf fate (typically sold into veal or beef production, often under low-welfare conditions) - Repeated pregnancy and high milking demands (3–4 pregnancies over ~4 years and are milked 2–3 times daily) - Health problems (mastitis, lameness, metabolic disorders etc) - Physical mutilations (dehorning/disbudding, tail docking and branding are routine) - Early culling (Productive lifespan is ~5 years, yet natural lifespan ~20 years) - Confinement and barren housing - Transportation and slaughter
- dghughes 2y agoAnd what do you think will happen if today all dairy cows were released to open fields? (I know)
- theoreticalmal 2y agoI’m cursious as to what would happen, other than more expensive milk and cheese
- dghughes 1y agoThe cows would die if nobody milks them. Dairy cows are basically 100% reliant on humans now. I live in a farming community but I'm not a farmer. I see comments about mistreatment of cows as if farmers are constantly beating them. Dairy farmers are one of the busiest types of farmers since cows have to be milked twice per day usually 04:00 and 16:00h (4am and 4pm). Anyone with a business would not be damaging the product or causing it to fail from mistreatment. If a farmer mistreats cows the milk production drops. People comment have no clue about the farms and probably have never set foot on a farm or talked to a farmer.
- CoopaTroopa 2y agoCuttlefish confirmed Italians
- dfedbeef 2y agobest comment
- hartjer 2y agoThis is disappointing, I thought there would be a lot more cuddling involved
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- fudged71 2y agoIt took me a while to find, but here is a BestOf Reddit comment from 16 years ago where a user Saydrah discusses communicating with Cuttlefish for an hour with her fingers https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/s/TBfh8u9MGX https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/s/TBfh8u9MGX
- thinkingtoilet 2y agoI'm impressed you remembered and found a reddit comment from 16 years ago. +1 internet points
- fudged71 2y agoThis would make my wife laugh so hard. If only I could remember more important things!
- IIAOPSW 2y agoUncannily similar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxOTbnHzGrI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxOTbnHzGrI
- autoexec 2y agoThe linked photo of the cuttlefish "greeting" gesture no longer exists where it was, but you can still see it here: https://web.archive.org/web/20071027131254/http://www.thepasty.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/Cuttlefish.jpg https://web.archive.org/web/20071027131254/http://www.thepas...
- tejtm 2y agojavascript free clickers, can replace "www" with "old" post is unarchived
- NonHyloMorph 2y agoI see, so they share that with there main predator... Italians
- DyslexicAtheist 2y agonot when they're deep-fried they don't
- asimpleusecase 2y ago“Well that,” said Polynesia, brushing some crumbs off the corner of the table with her left foot—“that is what you call powers of observation—noticing the small things about birds and animals: the way they walk and move their heads and flip their wings; the way they sniff the air and twitch their whiskers and wiggle their tails. You have to notice all those little things if you want to learn animal language. For you see, lots of the animals hardly talk at all with their tongues; they use their breath or their tails or their feet instead. Dr Dolittle’s Parrot explaining how to learn “animal language”. Voyages of Dr. Dolittle , chapter 8
- nfgrep 2y agoInteresting, The Mountain in The Sea is becoming a reality. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59808603-the-mountain-in-the-sea https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59808603-the-mountain-in...
- freilanzer 2y agoI preordered it and read it with the expectation of getting great sci-fi about kraken and got something else entirely. The focus is on many things, but not on sci-fi and kraken, so it is one of the weaker books in this area, sadly. I finished it, but it was a slog.
- asmodeuslucifer 2y agoI watched one checking me over when I was skin diving in about 3 feet of water. It was hard to see, because it had a rippling pattern of light and dark lines on its back that matched the sunlight through the waves.
- 97-109-107 2y agoIn Peter Watts's novel Blindsight, alien entities known as "Scramblers" exhibit complex behaviors and high intelligence without evidence of consciousness, relying on intricate physical movements and environmental interactions.
- casey2 2y ago>talk Cuttlefish don't talk. As far as we know the only species of animal capable of language are Humans. When people hear "talk" "communication" they believe it implies transmission of messages containing meaning through conscious thought. But for all other animals there is no evidence that either the sender nor the recipient generate or receive this meaning consciously. In this universe humans are likely at the lowest level of consciousness.