4 ms·

Surely there is some kind of due process? You can't just pick up foreign looking types and ship them off in black vans. That would be an illegal way to do that,

Surely there is some kind of due process? You can't just pick up foreign looking types and ship them off in black vans. That would be an illegal way to do that, I believe (I hope). I'm not American so I don't know how it works over there.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
[flagged]
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  > meaning the due process has been already run and determined they are illegal I'm pretty certain that is not what most people mean when they say "illegal immigrant".
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    And that's my problem how? I'm using the logical definition of the word, not trying to mind read what other peoples' interpretation might be. Illegal immigrant = an immigrant who is here illegally/against the law. What other stronger definitions of the word are there?
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      > Illegal immigrant = an immigrant who is here illegally/against the law I'm confused. This is how most people define the term, and is not what you said before. What you said before is "due process has been already run and determined they are illegal". There is a vast difference between someone that broke the law and someone that was convicted of breaking the law. When the average person says "illegal immigrant" they mean someone that broke immigration law. Nothing about whether due process has been applied. So if you start rounding up "illegal immigrants" and deporting them right away, that's a big problem, because not all of them had due process and you'll inevitably grab innocent people.
      - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        >When the average person says "illegal immigrant" they mean someone that broke immigration law. [...] So if you start rounding up "illegal immigrants" and deporting them right away, that's a big problem, because not all of them had due process and you'll inevitably grab innocent people. Aren't you contradicting yourself here? How can you break immigration law but be innocent? Immigration is pretty binary, you either have valid visa to be here or you don't, so you either broke the law or you didn't. What's there to argue about here? Yeah, we can say immigration laws suck sometimes, but that's an argument for changing the laws, not for removing the enforcement of the law.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        > Aren't you contradicting yourself here? How can you break immigration law but be innocent? If you try to round up everyone that committed a crime, you're going to make mistakes. You'll get people that did not commit that crime. So no, there's no contradiction in that sentence. > Immigration is pretty binary, you either have valid visa to be here or you don't, so you either broke the law or you didn't. What's there to argue about here? The way you check, properly, is with due process. It's pretty easy to do due process on immigration. It can be done efficiently. But you still have to do it.
        FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        >If you try to round up everyone that committed a crime, you're going to make mistakes. You'll get people that did not commit that crime. So no, there's no contradiction in that sentence. Yeah there is contradiction. They either committed the crime or they did not. Which is it? Do they have valid immigration papers or not. That IS the due process. Where do you see the potential mistakes? It's very binary. When you enter the movie theater, you either have a ticket or you don't. And mistakes happen with all the due process in the world. Jails everywhere have people who are there even if they did not commit the crime simply because the prosecution was stronger than the defense.
        1y ago

FirmwareBurner 1y ago

[flagged]

Dylan16807 1y ago
> meaning the due process has been already run and determined they are illegal I'm pretty certain that is not what most people mean when they say "illegal immigrant".
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  And that's my problem how? I'm using the logical definition of the word, not trying to mind read what other peoples' interpretation might be. Illegal immigrant = an immigrant who is here illegally/against the law. What other stronger definitions of the word are there?
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    > Illegal immigrant = an immigrant who is here illegally/against the law I'm confused. This is how most people define the term, and is not what you said before. What you said before is "due process has been already run and determined they are illegal". There is a vast difference between someone that broke the law and someone that was convicted of breaking the law. When the average person says "illegal immigrant" they mean someone that broke immigration law. Nothing about whether due process has been applied. So if you start rounding up "illegal immigrants" and deporting them right away, that's a big problem, because not all of them had due process and you'll inevitably grab innocent people.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      >When the average person says "illegal immigrant" they mean someone that broke immigration law. [...] So if you start rounding up "illegal immigrants" and deporting them right away, that's a big problem, because not all of them had due process and you'll inevitably grab innocent people. Aren't you contradicting yourself here? How can you break immigration law but be innocent? Immigration is pretty binary, you either have valid visa to be here or you don't, so you either broke the law or you didn't. What's there to argue about here? Yeah, we can say immigration laws suck sometimes, but that's an argument for changing the laws, not for removing the enforcement of the law.
      - Dylan16807 1y ago
        > Aren't you contradicting yourself here? How can you break immigration law but be innocent? If you try to round up everyone that committed a crime, you're going to make mistakes. You'll get people that did not commit that crime. So no, there's no contradiction in that sentence. > Immigration is pretty binary, you either have valid visa to be here or you don't, so you either broke the law or you didn't. What's there to argue about here? The way you check, properly, is with due process. It's pretty easy to do due process on immigration. It can be done efficiently. But you still have to do it.
        FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        >If you try to round up everyone that committed a crime, you're going to make mistakes. You'll get people that did not commit that crime. So no, there's no contradiction in that sentence. Yeah there is contradiction. They either committed the crime or they did not. Which is it? Do they have valid immigration papers or not. That IS the due process. Where do you see the potential mistakes? It's very binary. When you enter the movie theater, you either have a ticket or you don't. And mistakes happen with all the due process in the world. Jails everywhere have people who are there even if they did not commit the crime simply because the prosecution was stronger than the defense.
        1y ago