5 ms·

It can be seen as a Chinese backdoor on western computers. I am not expert, but I think it's not necessarily the case? Cheating is really a plague right now,

by jokoon 1y ago

It can be seen as a Chinese backdoor on western computers. I am not expert, but I think it's not necessarily the case? Cheating is really a plague right now, and the only way to mitigate it is using kernel anti cheat.

ronsor 1y ago
And now AI can pretend to be input devices and need only video output. Kernel anti-cheat will be useless, and we'll be better off for it. If your solution is bad, it doesn't deserve to work. Find something else.
- doikor 1y ago
  Though if the AI is only as good as a human can be it is not that desirable. If the cheat does "super human" stuff it can be detected from behavior on the server side though this is after the fact from processing some replay files and thus not that "great" for players as the cheater gets to ruin at least one game. > “You have to humanize [the cheat] to a degree where the advantage is imperceptible from what a human can do,” said Koskinas. “And once you’re there, you’re not really cheating enough to make it worth it for most users.” But it is something they acknowledge will be an issue at some point in the future. Personally I think for now AI is way too slow as all the computation needs to happen in a few milliseconds to really be effective. > Koskinas says he often worries about the use of AI for screen classification, to learn what human inputs look like, and how to reproduce them.
- az09mugen 1y ago
  Since AI is everywhere you think it can be used to spot cheaters behaviours ?
  - ronsor 1y ago
    Yes, that's the real solution, not rootkits.
    - mschuster91 1y ago
      AI certainly is not the solution. It has its issues, false positives, and there's barely any way to get support for that case as support agents are instructed with the AI being infallible.
  - doikor 1y ago
    Has been used for some time now. https://x.com/deteccphilippe/status/1883945555102957617 https://x.com/deteccphilippe/status/1883945555102957617 > “Behavior” refers to an ML suspension (also called “server-sided” anti-cheat), often given to ragehackers. But then you can just teach an AI to act like a human. Anti cheats in computer games is and always will be a cat and mouse game and AI/ML is just another tool in the bag of many tools (most bans seem to be fingerprinting based basically rebanning previous offenders who failed to get around the fingerprinting system)
  - int_19h 1y ago
    The fundamental problem is that a subtle enough cheater is indistinguishable from a good enough human player.

by jokoon 1y ago

ronsor 1y ago

And now AI can pretend to be input devices and need only video output. Kernel anti-cheat will be useless, and we'll be better off for it. If your solution is bad, it doesn't deserve to work. Find something else.

doikor 1y ago
Though if the AI is only as good as a human can be it is not that desirable. If the cheat does "super human" stuff it can be detected from behavior on the server side though this is after the fact from processing some replay files and thus not that "great" for players as the cheater gets to ruin at least one game. > “You have to humanize [the cheat] to a degree where the advantage is imperceptible from what a human can do,” said Koskinas. “And once you’re there, you’re not really cheating enough to make it worth it for most users.” But it is something they acknowledge will be an issue at some point in the future. Personally I think for now AI is way too slow as all the computation needs to happen in a few milliseconds to really be effective. > Koskinas says he often worries about the use of AI for screen classification, to learn what human inputs look like, and how to reproduce them.
az09mugen 1y ago
Since AI is everywhere you think it can be used to spot cheaters behaviours ?
- ronsor 1y ago
  Yes, that's the real solution, not rootkits.
  - mschuster91 1y ago
    AI certainly is not the solution. It has its issues, false positives, and there's barely any way to get support for that case as support agents are instructed with the AI being infallible.
- doikor 1y ago
  Has been used for some time now. https://x.com/deteccphilippe/status/1883945555102957617 https://x.com/deteccphilippe/status/1883945555102957617 > “Behavior” refers to an ML suspension (also called “server-sided” anti-cheat), often given to ragehackers. But then you can just teach an AI to act like a human. Anti cheats in computer games is and always will be a cat and mouse game and AI/ML is just another tool in the bag of many tools (most bans seem to be fingerprinting based basically rebanning previous offenders who failed to get around the fingerprinting system)
- int_19h 1y ago
  The fundamental problem is that a subtle enough cheater is indistinguishable from a good enough human player.