5 ms·

I am astonished that they shipped VS 2010 knowing that it took over 20 seconds after launch to start editing VB code. Kudos for the improvement, though.

by runako 14y ago

adrr 14y ago
VS 2010 was a big turd of an IDE. I wonder how this version compares to VS.net 2008.
- beagle3 14y ago
  I feel everything since VC++6 (released 1998, if I'm not mistaken) has been going downhill. (I don't really like .net -- I'm referring primarily to the C++ IDE; and I also think the VB6 IDE is nicer than any VB.NET one)
  - photon137 14y ago
    ...has been going downhill. ...I'm referring primarily to the C++ IDE How, specifically?
    - beagle3 14y ago
      Snappiness is the thing that bothers me most: With VC6, on my machine in 2000: While debugging, I could press "F10", keep it pressed (to single step instructions), raise my finger when I get to the right place. It all worked instantly. Now, it feels like there's half a second response time to each one of those keypresses. While building, I could stop execution (Shift-F5) and restart (F5) in about 0.3 seconds if I didn't change any source file. VS 2010 takes about 3 seconds, on a really simple project, to figure out that it doesn't need to rebuild anything before starting. And then, it takes another second to actually start my code. WTF?
    - runako 14y ago
      11 seconds to start editing code, for starters. I don't remember VS6 being anywhere near that slow.
      - photon137 14y ago
        That's too flimsy a reason for labelling a product as "going downhill", in my opinion - but to each his/her own. You do realize that VS2010 has way more functionality than VS6 - debugging parallel apps/attaching to native, non-native processes and being able to step through both varieties of calls/code completion and snippets etc?
        seanmcdirmid 14y ago
        I'm not sure if you are being serious or not. You talk about all those great features that the user isn't probably interested in using, then blame those features for why the user can't start editing code in a few seconds? Features are great when you need them. But when you don't need them, they shouldn't be negatives. Incidentally, I don't think it was really features that made VS2010 slow.
        photon137 14y ago
        I am being serious. I'd rather doubt the seriousness of anyone moaning about an 11-second delay before they can start to code using Visual Studio while ignoring the features one truly uses Visual Studio for (which you have conveniently labelled as "not interested in using"). Why are they using Visual Studio at all then? Why not Textpad/Notepad++ or Emacs if they're so concerned about startup time? The only IDE that does come close to VS in functionality is Eclipse and that has a woefully slow startup time - never stopped any Java developer from touting that as the greatest IDE ever (it exceeds VS in many cases, IMO). Both of these IDEs, once they load, are extremely responsive considering the scale of the projects they are made to handle. JIT compilation occurs for chunks of code as you type code - that is dazzlingly fast for VS (and it's not just plain symbol-based lookup as used to happen in VS6 IntelliSense). Incidentally, I don't think it was really features that made VS2010 slow What do you think makes it slow during startup? According to me, it's sub-component/assembly/library load time during IDE startup and file parsing/symbol loading time during/after project-load.
        seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  - malbs 14y ago
    "the VB6 IDE is nicer than any VB.NET one" I can think of a couple of items right off the bat.. - no mouse wheel support - code navigation shortcut keys non-existant - ide crashed all the time - I can't think of anything else really because it's been so long I was forced to want to kill myself (translation: It's been a while since I had to use the VB6 toolset) I would argue you never spent any serious time in the VB6 ide, because it was (is) complete garbage. The fact that people still use it proves to me that those people simply don't know any better. And if you throw the argument that VB6 is great for just banging out windows apps that work, Delphi is a far better choice.
    - GFischer 14y ago
      I still have to use it regularly (with service pack 6), and it isn't that bad. Of course any modern IDE is far superior, but it hasn't crashed on me, there's a mouse scroll add-in, and it doesn't get in the way.
    - abolibibelot 14y ago
      The upside of the VB6 IDE, used on a recent computer is that it's amazingly fast and snappy (it was meant to run on 1998's PC's). That's what I kept telling myself when I had to work on a legacy 600k LoC VB codebase last year. If you ever find yourself in the same situation, use the first paragraph as a mantra to keep your sanity.
      - beagle3 14y ago
        It was fast and snappy back in 1998 too. Much faster and snappier than Studio 2010 in 2010.
    - starik36 14y ago
      No mouse wheel support? First 3 Google results solve the problem for you. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1039673/how-can-i-make-mousewheel-work-in-vb6-ide http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1039673/how-can-i-make-mo... I've spent a significant amount of time in VB6 back in the day and built many large and complicated apps several of which are still in use today (including a mission critical 911 center app). The IDE was pretty awesome with features that are unmatched to this day (COM library indirection for instance). Debugging was super quick, Edit and Continue worked great.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
skeletonjelly 14y ago
Lucky for them Microsoft just released a new version of the .NET framework that includes async!

I am astonished that they shipped VS 2010 knowing that it took over 20 seconds after launch to start editing VB code. Kudos for the improvement, though.

by runako 14y ago

I am astonished that they shipped VS 2010 knowing that it took over 20 seconds after launch to start editing VB code. Kudos for the improvement, though.

adrr 14y ago

VS 2010 was a big turd of an IDE. I wonder how this version compares to VS.net 2008.

beagle3 14y ago
I feel everything since VC++6 (released 1998, if I'm not mistaken) has been going downhill. (I don't really like .net -- I'm referring primarily to the C++ IDE; and I also think the VB6 IDE is nicer than any VB.NET one)
- photon137 14y ago
  ...has been going downhill. ...I'm referring primarily to the C++ IDE How, specifically?
  - beagle3 14y ago
    Snappiness is the thing that bothers me most: With VC6, on my machine in 2000: While debugging, I could press "F10", keep it pressed (to single step instructions), raise my finger when I get to the right place. It all worked instantly. Now, it feels like there's half a second response time to each one of those keypresses. While building, I could stop execution (Shift-F5) and restart (F5) in about 0.3 seconds if I didn't change any source file. VS 2010 takes about 3 seconds, on a really simple project, to figure out that it doesn't need to rebuild anything before starting. And then, it takes another second to actually start my code. WTF?
  - runako 14y ago
    11 seconds to start editing code, for starters. I don't remember VS6 being anywhere near that slow.
    - photon137 14y ago
      That's too flimsy a reason for labelling a product as "going downhill", in my opinion - but to each his/her own. You do realize that VS2010 has way more functionality than VS6 - debugging parallel apps/attaching to native, non-native processes and being able to step through both varieties of calls/code completion and snippets etc?
      - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
        I'm not sure if you are being serious or not. You talk about all those great features that the user isn't probably interested in using, then blame those features for why the user can't start editing code in a few seconds? Features are great when you need them. But when you don't need them, they shouldn't be negatives. Incidentally, I don't think it was really features that made VS2010 slow.
        photon137 14y ago
        I am being serious. I'd rather doubt the seriousness of anyone moaning about an 11-second delay before they can start to code using Visual Studio while ignoring the features one truly uses Visual Studio for (which you have conveniently labelled as "not interested in using"). Why are they using Visual Studio at all then? Why not Textpad/Notepad++ or Emacs if they're so concerned about startup time? The only IDE that does come close to VS in functionality is Eclipse and that has a woefully slow startup time - never stopped any Java developer from touting that as the greatest IDE ever (it exceeds VS in many cases, IMO). Both of these IDEs, once they load, are extremely responsive considering the scale of the projects they are made to handle. JIT compilation occurs for chunks of code as you type code - that is dazzlingly fast for VS (and it's not just plain symbol-based lookup as used to happen in VS6 IntelliSense). Incidentally, I don't think it was really features that made VS2010 slow What do you think makes it slow during startup? According to me, it's sub-component/assembly/library load time during IDE startup and file parsing/symbol loading time during/after project-load.
        seanmcdirmid 14y ago
- malbs 14y ago
  "the VB6 IDE is nicer than any VB.NET one" I can think of a couple of items right off the bat.. - no mouse wheel support - code navigation shortcut keys non-existant - ide crashed all the time - I can't think of anything else really because it's been so long I was forced to want to kill myself (translation: It's been a while since I had to use the VB6 toolset) I would argue you never spent any serious time in the VB6 ide, because it was (is) complete garbage. The fact that people still use it proves to me that those people simply don't know any better. And if you throw the argument that VB6 is great for just banging out windows apps that work, Delphi is a far better choice.
  - GFischer 14y ago
    I still have to use it regularly (with service pack 6), and it isn't that bad. Of course any modern IDE is far superior, but it hasn't crashed on me, there's a mouse scroll add-in, and it doesn't get in the way.
  - abolibibelot 14y ago
    The upside of the VB6 IDE, used on a recent computer is that it's amazingly fast and snappy (it was meant to run on 1998's PC's). That's what I kept telling myself when I had to work on a legacy 600k LoC VB codebase last year. If you ever find yourself in the same situation, use the first paragraph as a mantra to keep your sanity.
    - beagle3 14y ago
      It was fast and snappy back in 1998 too. Much faster and snappier than Studio 2010 in 2010.
  - starik36 14y ago
    No mouse wheel support? First 3 Google results solve the problem for you. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1039673/how-can-i-make-mousewheel-work-in-vb6-ide http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1039673/how-can-i-make-mo... I've spent a significant amount of time in VB6 back in the day and built many large and complicated apps several of which are still in use today (including a mission critical 911 center app). The IDE was pretty awesome with features that are unmatched to this day (COM library indirection for instance). Debugging was super quick, Edit and Continue worked great.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

skeletonjelly 14y ago

Lucky for them Microsoft just released a new version of the .NET framework that includes async!