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From the outside: isn't modern American culture just a parody of itself? And isn't that why there are so many who claim to be "Irish" or "Italian" even though

From the outside: isn't modern American culture just a parody of itself? And isn't that why there are so many who claim to be "Irish" or "Italian" even though they're third or fourth generation and have never set foot in the countries. I'll probably grab UK citizenship soon, but I would never say "I'm British". Nor would I if I had British parents (I don't) when I was still in NZ, before I'd even set foot in the UK.

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stavros 1y ago
Yeah, the way Americans mean "I'm X nationality" and the way the rest of the world means it are different. I don't think when Americans say "I'm Italian" they mean "I was born and raised in Italy and Italian is my native language", as we do, they just mean "I have distant Italian ancestry", and that's widely understood to mean that in the US. If an American said to another American "I'm Italian", I don't think the latter would ask "oh, how was your childhood in Italy?".
- skissane 1y ago
  > Yeah, the way Americans mean "I'm X nationality" and the way the rest of the world means it are different. I don’t think this is uniquely American - I know people in Australia who identify as Italian despite the fact their parents were born here. And I wonder if you’d find something similar in other places where large numbers of Italians emigrated, such as Argentina. And the same applies to various other groups too, mutatis mutandis. A word like “Italian” can variously describe legal nationality/citizenship, ethnicity, ancestry, language, self-identification - and different combinations of those possibilities in different contexts or as used by different speakers
roywiggins 1y ago
When someone says they're Irish or Italian they mean it as an ethnicity, not a nationality, and it often has an implied "-American" suffix. Irish-Americans are a distinct ethnic group, at least historically; you might compare it to, say, Cuban or Haitian immigrants, who each have distinct communities, cultures, and so forth, often even distinct from their namesake countries'.
- fennecbutt 1y ago
  But then why do so many invoke "the old country" stuff lmao. I definitely still feel like it gives Americans in an otherwise contiguous and vanilla culture something to grab onto per se. I have American friends over here who are very invested in where they're from and have a unique interest in telling peeps about their history even though they're like 5th generation at least.
skissane 1y ago
> I'll probably grab UK citizenship soon, but I would never say "I'm British" I’m a British citizen, but I’m not British. I’ve never stepped foot in the UK in my whole life, I became a citizen through descent. And my late grandmother, who was born in Scotland and lived the first half of her life there, I remember once calling her Scottish, and she corrected me “I’m not Scottish, I’m Irish” (both her parents were born in Ireland)
- fennecbutt 1y ago
  Oh but if Ireland is involved then it's most certainly a sense of pride in the identity. It's still a touchy subject over here, there are many people still alive who remember the impact of the events. Interesting how you don't get "9/11" shots over here.
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stavros 1y ago

Yeah, the way Americans mean "I'm X nationality" and the way the rest of the world means it are different. I don't think when Americans say "I'm Italian" they mean "I was born and raised in Italy and Italian is my native language", as we do, they just mean "I have distant Italian ancestry", and that's widely understood to mean that in the US. If an American said to another American "I'm Italian", I don't think the latter would ask "oh, how was your childhood in Italy?".

skissane 1y ago
> Yeah, the way Americans mean "I'm X nationality" and the way the rest of the world means it are different. I don’t think this is uniquely American - I know people in Australia who identify as Italian despite the fact their parents were born here. And I wonder if you’d find something similar in other places where large numbers of Italians emigrated, such as Argentina. And the same applies to various other groups too, mutatis mutandis. A word like “Italian” can variously describe legal nationality/citizenship, ethnicity, ancestry, language, self-identification - and different combinations of those possibilities in different contexts or as used by different speakers

roywiggins 1y ago

When someone says they're Irish or Italian they mean it as an ethnicity, not a nationality, and it often has an implied "-American" suffix. Irish-Americans are a distinct ethnic group, at least historically; you might compare it to, say, Cuban or Haitian immigrants, who each have distinct communities, cultures, and so forth, often even distinct from their namesake countries'.

fennecbutt 1y ago
But then why do so many invoke "the old country" stuff lmao. I definitely still feel like it gives Americans in an otherwise contiguous and vanilla culture something to grab onto per se. I have American friends over here who are very invested in where they're from and have a unique interest in telling peeps about their history even though they're like 5th generation at least.

skissane 1y ago

> I'll probably grab UK citizenship soon, but I would never say "I'm British" I’m a British citizen, but I’m not British. I’ve never stepped foot in the UK in my whole life, I became a citizen through descent. And my late grandmother, who was born in Scotland and lived the first half of her life there, I remember once calling her Scottish, and she corrected me “I’m not Scottish, I’m Irish” (both her parents were born in Ireland)

fennecbutt 1y ago
Oh but if Ireland is involved then it's most certainly a sense of pride in the identity. It's still a touchy subject over here, there are many people still alive who remember the impact of the events. Interesting how you don't get "9/11" shots over here.

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