5 ms·

So why aren't trains automated yet? I mean, beside the inter-airport shuttles. Seems like a much more constrained set of parameters to deal with. I'd think t

by floxy 1y ago

So why aren't trains automated yet? I mean, beside the inter-airport shuttles. Seems like a much more constrained set of parameters to deal with. I'd think this would be a good "first" project to tackle for an AV company, even if the economics of replacing locomotive drivers/engineers weren't super compelling. Is it an insurance thing? Because a train wreck could be much more disastrous and costly? Or is it a union thing? Others?

tw04 1y ago
> So why aren't trains automated yet? Why? The labor of a conductor is a fraction of the total cost to move the cargo, to the point it’s a rounding error.
- aaomidi 1y ago
  And the job creates a sense of community too. At some point it’ll probably be automated, but yeah, what’s the point.
- LorenPechtel 1y ago
  And it means someone on site to react sensibly when things go wrong. Think of the Miracle on the Hudson. The pilot said "This is the captain. Brace for impact." The flight attendants picked up on that and immediately began directing the passengers on what "brace for impact" means. Without that how many would have reacted properly (the info is on the safety card, but how many have read it well enough??), how many would be asking for information, how many would just generally be panicking?
  - toast0 1y ago
    If a freight train is unstaffed, who would brace for impact? Anyway, labor costs to have a couple engineers aboard is much less than if the load was travelling by truck, even if the trucks have no driver in them, they're likely supervised at a ratio with more humans than it takes to operate a long freight train.
    - LorenPechtel 1y ago
      That was a general example, not a specific one. And in my experience conductors are passenger trains. Freight might have a driver, but no conductor.
- derektank 1y ago
  Didn't we almost see a national rail strike 2 years ago? It seems like reducing that risk would be an incentive enough to make the transition, even if overall costs are low.
  - bee_rider 1y ago
    Automating the conductor job doesn’t necessarily mean there won’t be anybody around to strike, I think.
    - bgnn 1y ago
      This. Most of the jobs are in infrastructure and servicing (loading, maintenance etc). Those are using as much automatization as possible already.
jen729w 1y ago
> beside the inter-airport shuttles Singapore and Sydney would like a word.
- LargoLasskhyfv 1y ago
  Nuremberg(partially), Hamburg(partially, soon), too.
makeitdouble 1y ago
https://www.grandparisexpress.fr/new-metro https://www.grandparisexpress.fr/new-metro
degamad 1y ago
Lots of trains are. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_train_systems https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_train_sys...
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
stephen_g 1y ago
Almost all of the currently automated rail systems in the world have two things: 1. Full grade separation with no level crossings (often including platform edge doors along any station platforms the trains move through too) 2. Full fencing along the corridor. Those are two things that isn’t true for almost any freight line. Not to say it’s not possible with extremely extensive sensor and decision making systems but we’re probably not really there yet.

by floxy 1y ago

tw04 1y ago

> So why aren't trains automated yet? Why? The labor of a conductor is a fraction of the total cost to move the cargo, to the point it’s a rounding error.

aaomidi 1y ago
And the job creates a sense of community too. At some point it’ll probably be automated, but yeah, what’s the point.
LorenPechtel 1y ago
And it means someone on site to react sensibly when things go wrong. Think of the Miracle on the Hudson. The pilot said "This is the captain. Brace for impact." The flight attendants picked up on that and immediately began directing the passengers on what "brace for impact" means. Without that how many would have reacted properly (the info is on the safety card, but how many have read it well enough??), how many would be asking for information, how many would just generally be panicking?
- toast0 1y ago
  If a freight train is unstaffed, who would brace for impact? Anyway, labor costs to have a couple engineers aboard is much less than if the load was travelling by truck, even if the trucks have no driver in them, they're likely supervised at a ratio with more humans than it takes to operate a long freight train.
  - LorenPechtel 1y ago
    That was a general example, not a specific one. And in my experience conductors are passenger trains. Freight might have a driver, but no conductor.
derektank 1y ago
Didn't we almost see a national rail strike 2 years ago? It seems like reducing that risk would be an incentive enough to make the transition, even if overall costs are low.
- bee_rider 1y ago
  Automating the conductor job doesn’t necessarily mean there won’t be anybody around to strike, I think.
  - bgnn 1y ago
    This. Most of the jobs are in infrastructure and servicing (loading, maintenance etc). Those are using as much automatization as possible already.

jen729w 1y ago

> beside the inter-airport shuttles Singapore and Sydney would like a word.

LargoLasskhyfv 1y ago
Nuremberg(partially), Hamburg(partially, soon), too.

makeitdouble 1y ago

https://www.grandparisexpress.fr/new-metro https://www.grandparisexpress.fr/new-metro

degamad 1y ago

Lots of trains are. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_train_systems https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_train_sys...

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

stephen_g 1y ago

Almost all of the currently automated rail systems in the world have two things: 1. Full grade separation with no level crossings (often including platform edge doors along any station platforms the trains move through too) 2. Full fencing along the corridor. Those are two things that isn’t true for almost any freight line. Not to say it’s not possible with extremely extensive sensor and decision making systems but we’re probably not really there yet.