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Fine. All that will happen is we'll see more sites switching to requiring a login to do anything on their website, so that they can track you with first-party c

Fine. All that will happen is we'll see more sites switching to requiring a login to do anything on their website, so that they can track you with first-party cookies, and sell your information that way. Nothing will meaningfully change. The only distinction is that I can do a decent job of blocking third-party cookies today with my existing solutions like uBlock Origin, but I will probably have a much more difficult time getting around login/paywalls.

recursive 1y ago
First party cookies can't build a profile on you across multiple origins.
- hiccuphippo 1y ago
  All they need to do is redirect you through a central hub after login.
  - quectophoton 1y ago
    On first visit: * "Please wait while we verify that you're not a bot, for which we'll need to associate a unique identifier with your browsing session." (logged in or not) * The validation needs to do a quick redirection to an external centralized service, because if they can already identify that you're not a bot, you save CPU cycles, and you care a lot about carbon footprint after all. * Redirect back to the original website, passing the "proof of not-a-bot" somewhere in the URL. This is just a string. * The website absolutely needs to load the external script `https://proof-validation.example.com/that-unique-string.js https://proof-validation.example.com/that-unique-string.js` for totally legit purposes obviously related to detecting bot behavior, "somehow". Half-joking because I don't think this would fly. Or maybe it would, since it's currently trendy to have that PoW on first visit, and users are already used to multiple quick redirections[1] (I don't think they even pay attention to what happens in the URL bar). But I'm sure we'd get some creative workarounds anyway. [1]: Easy example: A post on Xitter (original domain) -> Shortened link (different domain) -> Final domain (another different domain). If the person who posted the original link also used a link shortener for tracking clicks, then that's one more redirection.
- jmb99 1y ago
  They absolutely can. They have, at minimum, your account information and your IP address. Maybe you use a burner email address and/or phone number, and maybe a VPN, but chances are you’re not cycling your VPN IP constantly so there’s going to be some overlap there. And if you do cycle your IP, 99%+ of users probably aren’t clearing session cookies when doing so, which means you’re now tracked across IP/VPN sessions. Same deal if you ever connect without a VPN - that IP is tracked too. There’s tons of ways to fingerprint without third party cookies, they just make it easier (and also easier to opt out of if they exist, just disable third party cookies; if no one has third party cookies, sites are going to start relying on more intrusive tracking methods). You can also easily redirect from your site to some third party tracking site that returns back to your successful login page - and fail the login if the user is blocking the tracking domain. The user then has to choose whether to enable tracking (by not blocking the tracking domain) or not seeing your website at all. Yes the site might lose viewers, but if they weren’t making the site any money, that might be a valid trade off if there’s no alternative. Not saying I agree with any of this, btw, I hate ads and tracking with a passion - I run various DNS blocking solutions, have ad blockers everywhere possible, etc. Just stating what I believe these sort of sites would and can do.
ear7h 1y ago
Can't you just work around all of this by proxying to the third party site(s) with a subdomain?
- crummy 1y ago
  I think you're right. I imagine if third party cookies were ever banned, we'd quickly see googleads.whatever.com become a common sight.
g-b-r 1y ago
There's no need for a login to track you with "first-party cookies", looking at the IP is perfectly adequate, at most adding some fingerprinting if you really want. The only problem is that then the tracking companies have to place more trust on the first party that they're giving them real data. But they're doing it, actually, see confection.io for example

recursive 1y ago

First party cookies can't build a profile on you across multiple origins.

hiccuphippo 1y ago
All they need to do is redirect you through a central hub after login.
- quectophoton 1y ago
  On first visit: * "Please wait while we verify that you're not a bot, for which we'll need to associate a unique identifier with your browsing session." (logged in or not) * The validation needs to do a quick redirection to an external centralized service, because if they can already identify that you're not a bot, you save CPU cycles, and you care a lot about carbon footprint after all. * Redirect back to the original website, passing the "proof of not-a-bot" somewhere in the URL. This is just a string. * The website absolutely needs to load the external script `https://proof-validation.example.com/that-unique-string.js https://proof-validation.example.com/that-unique-string.js` for totally legit purposes obviously related to detecting bot behavior, "somehow". Half-joking because I don't think this would fly. Or maybe it would, since it's currently trendy to have that PoW on first visit, and users are already used to multiple quick redirections[1] (I don't think they even pay attention to what happens in the URL bar). But I'm sure we'd get some creative workarounds anyway. [1]: Easy example: A post on Xitter (original domain) -> Shortened link (different domain) -> Final domain (another different domain). If the person who posted the original link also used a link shortener for tracking clicks, then that's one more redirection.
jmb99 1y ago
They absolutely can. They have, at minimum, your account information and your IP address. Maybe you use a burner email address and/or phone number, and maybe a VPN, but chances are you’re not cycling your VPN IP constantly so there’s going to be some overlap there. And if you do cycle your IP, 99%+ of users probably aren’t clearing session cookies when doing so, which means you’re now tracked across IP/VPN sessions. Same deal if you ever connect without a VPN - that IP is tracked too. There’s tons of ways to fingerprint without third party cookies, they just make it easier (and also easier to opt out of if they exist, just disable third party cookies; if no one has third party cookies, sites are going to start relying on more intrusive tracking methods). You can also easily redirect from your site to some third party tracking site that returns back to your successful login page - and fail the login if the user is blocking the tracking domain. The user then has to choose whether to enable tracking (by not blocking the tracking domain) or not seeing your website at all. Yes the site might lose viewers, but if they weren’t making the site any money, that might be a valid trade off if there’s no alternative. Not saying I agree with any of this, btw, I hate ads and tracking with a passion - I run various DNS blocking solutions, have ad blockers everywhere possible, etc. Just stating what I believe these sort of sites would and can do.

ear7h 1y ago

Can't you just work around all of this by proxying to the third party site(s) with a subdomain?

crummy 1y ago
I think you're right. I imagine if third party cookies were ever banned, we'd quickly see googleads.whatever.com become a common sight.

g-b-r 1y ago

There's no need for a login to track you with "first-party cookies", looking at the IP is perfectly adequate, at most adding some fingerprinting if you really want. The only problem is that then the tracking companies have to place more trust on the first party that they're giving them real data. But they're doing it, actually, see confection.io for example