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They could make a very specific exception with serious penalties for misuse. Similar to how part of the Knights Templar's training was to learn to spit on a cr

They could make a very specific exception with serious penalties for misuse. Similar to how part of the Knights Templar's training was to learn to spit on a cross without spitting on Christ "in their minds" in case they were ever captured and made to do so by their captors.

Dracophoenix 1y ago
> Similar to how part of the Knights Templar's training was to learn to spit on a cross without spitting on Christ "in their minds" in case they were ever captured and made to do so by their captors. Eerily reminiscent of 1984's doublethink.
- rgblambda 1y ago
  I don't think the comparison is apt. Doublethink is to hold two contradictory beliefs simultaneously. The spitting on the cross thing is to say/do something without actually believing it.
  - pbhjpbhj 1y ago
    It's perhaps more rightthink (only allowing thoughts that would be approved by the party). But as with the parent, I too find the <"i never did $action" thought whilst having performed $action> reminiscent of doublethink... it's at least consistent. I think BB would approve! Very much the current USA zeitgeist.
- bee_rider 1y ago
  It doesn’t seem that much like doublethink to me. More like, common sense. It would be convenient if everyone who was trying to trick us was required to follow their ideology to a silly logical conclusion and provide obvious tells. But, even fanatics are full people. The Knight Templar is working for a being that can read his mind. Surely it can see through any duplicity that he needs to engage in, in that being’s service.
lo_zamoyski 1y ago
My understanding is that this account of the Knights Templar is dubious and obtained through torture. It also seems odd: coercion already removes culpability in due proportion, and you're still spitting on Christ. In any case, we're talking about a dictatorial communist regime, where informants and informing on people is widespread, and where having a case file of excuses to eliminate people is standard. We shouldn't trivialize this by appealing to standards that don't apply here.

Dracophoenix 1y ago

> Similar to how part of the Knights Templar's training was to learn to spit on a cross without spitting on Christ "in their minds" in case they were ever captured and made to do so by their captors. Eerily reminiscent of 1984's doublethink.

rgblambda 1y ago
I don't think the comparison is apt. Doublethink is to hold two contradictory beliefs simultaneously. The spitting on the cross thing is to say/do something without actually believing it.
- pbhjpbhj 1y ago
  It's perhaps more rightthink (only allowing thoughts that would be approved by the party). But as with the parent, I too find the <"i never did $action" thought whilst having performed $action> reminiscent of doublethink... it's at least consistent. I think BB would approve! Very much the current USA zeitgeist.
bee_rider 1y ago
It doesn’t seem that much like doublethink to me. More like, common sense. It would be convenient if everyone who was trying to trick us was required to follow their ideology to a silly logical conclusion and provide obvious tells. But, even fanatics are full people. The Knight Templar is working for a being that can read his mind. Surely it can see through any duplicity that he needs to engage in, in that being’s service.

lo_zamoyski 1y ago

My understanding is that this account of the Knights Templar is dubious and obtained through torture. It also seems odd: coercion already removes culpability in due proportion, and you're still spitting on Christ. In any case, we're talking about a dictatorial communist regime, where informants and informing on people is widespread, and where having a case file of excuses to eliminate people is standard. We shouldn't trivialize this by appealing to standards that don't apply here.