6 ms·

You could just choose optimism

146 points by surprisetalk 2y ago

dirtyhippiefree 2y ago
There’s an article recently posted about a violin built in a concentration camp. Talk about optimism… The point is that someone in bad circumstances can focus on the task and the horror of what they endure can subside. It’s definitely possible to choose optimism and end up improving one’s situation.
- iugtmkbdfil834 2y ago
  << The point is that someone in bad circumstances can focus on the task There is something to be said about being able to focus on something other than your immediate surroundings. This one guy[1], for example, was apparently focused on the task of infiltrating Auschwitz. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Aeglaecia 2y ago
    of course the work of viktor frankl must also be noted here
    - dirtyhippiefree 2y ago
      Absolutely, but continuing the thought will result in a long list…
kevmo314 2y ago
Isn’t this article complaining about complaints? Does that make it paradoxical? I think complaints, even gossipy ones, hold value. I agree with the general premise that it’s easier to complain, but in the hotel towel footnote honestly I’d complain to my friends because it’s a story to tell, not because I expect them to actually avoid the hotel. Misery loves company.
- kgwxd 2y ago
  It's not paradoxical to defend against offense with offense.
  - kevmo314 2y ago
    Ok perhaps paradoxical isn't the right word, self-refuting maybe?
    - kgwxd 2y ago
      Sorry, it was similar enough that you triggered my automatic "tolerance is not a paradox" response. I'm sure you weren't trying to justify all forms of "complaining" with pseudo-intellectual BS so, please forgive me for lashing out :) I agree, there's a funny thing about it, but to me it's more optimistic ;) It's like a very good point is being made, it's not perfect but, somehow, that point could be used to sharpen itself.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    There was no offense here though, he could have just chosen optimism and tried to see the best in these people but he choose not to.
- Lalabadie 2y ago
  "This deserves improvement" and "this deserves complaining and I will refuse to enjoy it" are two independent conclusions that don't need to come together. I doubt think the article is doing the former, while you're suggesting that it can't come without implying the latter.
  - kevmo314 2y ago
    The article is definitely suggesting the former... But even the article doesn't describe the latter either. Grouchy G could have enjoyed the flight despite being a complainer, we really don't know.
    - 2y ago
deadbabe 2y ago
[flagged]
internet2000 2y ago
[flagged]
- AstroBen 2y ago
  no one will stop me from being sad! How dare they!
  - kgwxd 2y ago
    You just sarcasmed in public. How dare you!
    - bravetraveler 2y ago
      Please just choose optimism.
- sulam 2y ago
  It’s an em-dash!
  - rhet0rica 2y ago
    I hope not. That's even weirder!
  - parrit 2y ago
    en-dash my friend
codr7 2y ago
You often can't choose what happens to you, but you can always choose how you react.
blackhaj7 2y ago
This is one of those excellent articles that nicely synthesises lots of your own less articulate thoughts Also, I forwarded it to my wife…
- kgwxd 2y ago
  Agreed. Also, sorry about the divorce.
  - squigz 2y ago
    What?
    - Jensson 2y ago
      Presumably the article would be used as ammo in an argument with his wife. Doing that is a good way to break a relationship. Not saying that is what happened, but that is what the commenter meant.
      - squigz 2y ago
        Or it could be used to help push each other to grow, like how most adult relationships work.
    - benji-york 2y ago
      My guess: optimism vs pessimism joke.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
andoando 2y ago
Too much optimism isn't good either. Some things are just shit, and you should avoid them.
Trasmatta 2y ago
From Carl Jung: > By not being aware of having a shadow, you declare a part of your personality to be non-existent. Then it enters the kingdom of the non-existent, which swells up and takes on enormous proportions…If you get rid of qualities you don’t like by denying them, you become more and more unaware of what you are, you declare yourself more and more non-existent, and your devils will grow fatter and fatter. You can't "optimism away" the "negative" emotions. You just bury them, but they continue to live in your system, and find their own ways out eventually. It's easy to fall into the trap of endless negativity. It's also easy to fall into the trap of toxic positivity, where you refuse to process pain or the "negative" because you're trying so hard to force the positive.
- LeonB 2y ago
  Bertie Wooster > “I never actually knew I had an unconscious mind, but I suppose I must have done all along, without realising it.”
- tbrownaw 2y ago
  > You can't "optimism away" the "negative" emotions. You just bury them, but they continue to live in your system, and find their own ways out eventually. That means you're doing it wrong.
  - Trasmatta 2y ago
    Sadness, anger, grief, loneliness, fear, these are all emotions that are part of being human, and they don't just go away (they just get buried or bypassed). They're also emotions that contribute to the richness of being human, and shouldn't go away. Instead they should be understood and integrated into the whole.
  - BeetleB 2y ago
    What I know for sure is that shallow dismissals are wrong.
    - tbrownaw 2y ago
jonstewart 2y ago
Optimism, pessimism, meh. In the tradition of tech, I choose skepticism. Two old guys ordering champagne on flights, a couple weeks apart, perfectly embodying the issue of the essay? Reads like a Just So story to me, better suited to LinkedIn.
alganet 2y ago
I did. It's great.
cut3 2y ago
Thanks, a helpful reminder.
macrocosmos 2y ago
The way text resizes on that website is so strange. It's actually amazing how awful it is. Like they went out of their way to ensure it resizes in the most ridiculous possible manner. And the zoom on my browser does nothing. Absolutely amazing.
- sambapa 2y ago
  I suppose that you have merely seen the text ;)
- cadamsdotcom 2y ago
  I like how positive you are about it!
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Yea, wow. The very first thing I do on most websites is CMD-+ to make the text larger and to make it fit my browser window horizontally, and somehow this site managed to be so bad that it prevents even that. I don't know how we keep furthering this trend of having a web site be a 5 inch wide strip of tiny font text down the middle of the browser window, with double that in whitespace on either side.
rekenaut 2y ago
I've discovered that the people I most enjoy being around are those that are authentically optimistic. Not those that are blind to everything negative, and not those who are faking it to ameliorate themselves, but those who are encouraged by the opportunity for a better tomorrow. Astonishingly, these are often people that have suffered overwhelming personal tragedy. I've also noticed that the more time I spend around these people, the more emotionally resilient I become myself to difficulties. There seems to be common sentiment that being optimistic is somehow ignorant or otherwise insidious. Maybe this is true, but I am already too familiar with the acute pain that comes with a life entrenched in pessimism to allow myself to fall into that spiral.
- Aeglaecia 2y ago
  i posit that the term optimism in its common usage conflates hope and delusion , hope being a subset of delusion that is consciously utilised in stimulating behaviour percieved to bring one closer to their goals , as opposed to a collapse of agency into pure fantasy disconnected from reality ... by demarcating these two concepts it is shown that optimism groups potentials both insidious and beautiful ... as usual, evidenciary of good and bad not being mutually exclusive ...
- whartung 2y ago
  > Astonishingly, these are often people that have suffered overwhelming personal tragedy. It sounds cliche, but a pair of the most powerful people I’ve known (in terms of personality) are near death survivors. One was in a small plane crash, the other was a SEAL that went into Grenada. He had rather long scar on his neck. Very positive people, almost, but not quite, devil may care. And it brings to mind a line from an early episode from “The Expanse”, where a character nearly died and, later returned on a dangerous mission. About how he should have died before, and now he was on bonus time. I’m not convinced folks can talk themselves into the mindset that may come from experiences like that. It’s old news, we’ve all heard it. But, most of us, seemingly, are unconvinced.
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    Coincidentally, NY Times had a front page article on this topic today: https://archive.vn/MjADI https://archive.vn/MjADI
bdbenton5255 2y ago
Optimism is the only choice for many of us. Especially for those trying to find work in this slump, persistence pays off in the end. The voice of Nature loudly cries, And many a message from the skies, That something in us never dies: - Robert Burns
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
sulam 2y ago
“Has it occurred to Thomas that he might be the problem?” Biggest laugh I’ve had all week!
aimor 2y ago
https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/rudyard-kipling/just-so-stories/text/the-butterfly-that-stamped https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/rudyard-kipling/just-so-st...
globnomulous 2y ago
[flagged]
- prmph 2y ago
  Don't know why you are being down-voted, but your comment is spot on. Of course being a complainer just by nature or for the fun of it is not constructive. But oh my, it amazes to no end how fragile the egos of people in general are.
  - globnomulous 2y ago
    To be fair to other users, I was rightly downvoted, I think, for a less-than-constructive "go fuck yourself," which I've since replaced with "spare me."
binary132 2y ago
This is bait for complainers.
mberning 2y ago
After 40+ years of life experience I understand why some people fall to their knees daily and beg for mercy. If getting champagne or a latte or whatever is enough to scratch your itch I applaud you. I envy you.
kgwxd 2y ago
> Choosing optimism may feel cheesy, even embarrassing, at first. Just go on the hike. Tell others you're going if you'd like, maybe they'll go too, but saying "it might be fun..." feels something like a complaint. "I pride myself on being optimistic, so of course I have to mention how everyone else is being pessimistic." That's why it feels embarrassing.
abc-1 2y ago
It depends. If someone complains about something and then fixes it, I’ll take them over the toxic optimist. There is nothing inherently wrong with complaining, what matters is the intent behind it. A complaint can be constructive, mean, funny, or any other number of good or bad things.
getpost 2y ago
Being optimistic is normally a good strategy for success, but it doesn't feel appropriate in dire circumstances, such as at the onset of World War 2. 70+ million people died, not to mention all the injuries, crimes, and environmental destruction. Saying "Think positive, the Allies will win!" in 1939 would have rung hollow. Instead of optimism, there needs to be a grim determination. I put that statement to ChatGPT, and it reminded me of Churchill's "We Shall Fight on the Beaches"[0] speech, which is defiant, rather than optimistic. Once again we seem to be in dire circumstances, on the brink of colossal ruin, owing the the whims of a handful toxic people, and the ignorance of so many who put them into power. I'm not at all optimistic, but I can try for grim determination. [0] https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1940-the-finest-hour/we-shall-fight-on-the-beaches/ https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1940-the-fin...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
photonthug 2y ago
Optimism vs pessimism is a false dichotomy. Anyone can phrase any question in the format of a yes/no or as for/against, and this is very frequently just a way of controlling the entire direction of the conversation. A realist would talk about pros/cons together, possibly in equal measure, and possibly not, and will actively resist absolute categorization of the remarks. A skeptic would ask, is your specific degree of optimism/pessimism on this thing warranted, and is this even the thing we want to be talking about? By comparison.. Why would you ever want to talk to an optimist or a pessimist, much less aspire to be either one?
bravetraveler 2y ago
When, in the history of everything, has anyone ever 'just'
socalgal2 2y ago
hmmm, the example of people complaining about Disney Star Wars - they took something beloved and shat on it for cheap $ - I'd like the people watching a new Star Wars to get the wonder I got out of eps 4-5-6. The fact that the ruined that feels worth mentioning. That said, I just wrote it out of my life and moved on. Is the South Park episode about Indiana Jones ep4 complaing? https://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/zwjhca/south-park-the-china-probrem-season-12-ep-8 https://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/zwjhca/south-park-...
whytaka 2y ago
I, for one, find joy and humor in my complaining.
erxam 2y ago
Frankly, I just don't see how any sort of optimism can survive the moment you step out of the house. It goes beyond the internet. The real world is an excruciating parade of torture, and no amount of self-platitudes or of positive thoughts will change the reality of the situation. Sure, you can try and not have anxiety. Live in the moment. But someone is eventually going to take advantage of that and you'll be worse off. That can only happen so many times before you start reevaluating your thoughts, intentions aside. Personally, the only times I've ever felt good about the world and how everything was going to be okay have been when I'm using opioids, hidden away in a corner of my room.
- jen729w 2y ago
  No it isn't. The world's amazing. Just yesterday I went to the shop. A man was carrying an animal to the vet. He said g'day on his way past. Then I had a nice chat with the lady at the post office about her kid's birthday this weekend. I'd overheard her telling the previous customer about it, so I continued the conversation despite being a stranger to her. Then I tried to buy a slab of beer at a place but it was too expensive. Had a nice chat to the lady there though. That was about all. A quiet day. But really lovely. Nobody took advantage. Nothing bad happened. No woes or tribulations. Just a nice day with reasonable weather. What happened to you yesterday?
  - prmph 2y ago
    I hope you are being sarcastic. > A man was carrying an animal to the vet. He said g'day on his way past. Then I had a nice chat with the lady at the post office about her kid's birthday this weekend. And these shallow almost-no-effort-required conversations are what convince you that everything is good? For some, people making these polite conversations to hide the awfulness of life itself is maddening. Not that such interaction is bad, but try to build on them to create any sort of meaningful relationship and see what happens. > Nobody took advantage. Nothing bad happened. No woes or tribulations. For you. I bet you many people were taken advantage of, killed, died from lack of food, were verbally abused, neglected emotionally, etc... that day
    - 2y ago
000ooo000 2y ago
Kind of ironic that TFA came after their previous piece. >I Literally Don’t Know >TL;DR: You don’t need to pick my brain, or probably anyone’s brain, for general life advice. It won’t help. Overall the Optimism piece is just long-form LinkedIn garbage. What insights does it present? Complaining bad, optimism good, not all complaining is bad, but complaining is mostly bad? OK.. Improvements rarely start with "I'm satisfied with this". Writing off complaining because one conflates complaining with misery is silly.
- tpmoney 2y ago
  > Improvements rarely start with "I'm satisfied with this". Writing off complaining because one conflates complaining with misery is silly. I've found improvements rarely start with complaining either. Or maybe it's more accurate to say that people I know that are complainers are rarely the source of improvements. They're usually too busy complaining about the situation and the proposed solutions to pick one. Improvements most often come from a mindset of "this thing is not the way I want it to be, so what am I going to do to change that?" Sometimes "complain to someone with the ability to change it" is the right answer, but usually you have some degree of agency yourself and it's a lot more effective to exercise that agency than to get someone else to act on your behalf in response to your complaints.
  - 1dom 2y ago
    I see it like a scale of how easy it is to deal with a problem. The easiest thing is to stew and do nothing. Next easiest thing is to is to sit around and complain. After that comes actually doing something about the problem. I think efficient, productive, optimistic people are people who don't have the ramp up time of stewing and complaining, and it becomes self perpetuating: they have a better life that's easy to be optimistic about because problems get solved by themselves without issues ("complaints").
- kcb 2y ago
  Improvements start because someone has a better solution to a problem, not just complaining about the current solution. We should implement x because it fixes these problems with current solution. Rather than just current solution is bad.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jgr0007 2y ago
"I wish there were more good role models of this behavior. Or maybe there are, and I’m too much of a grouchy complainer to see them. Who comes to mind for you?" Immediately thought of, and could not stop thinking of the Calvin & Hobbes camping trip. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/candh/images/3/30/8-16.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120215033025 https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/candh/images/3/30/8-16.gif...
jen729w 2y ago
I'm living (temporarily) with someone who obsessively watches the news on TV. And not the good news. The trashy, commercial-channel news. 'Oh who cares about this rubbish!', they'll say to the screen. Or 'who cares about these people, why do we need to see this?', or 'why do we give these people attention?'. As someone who identifies as an optimist – and who hasn't watched any form of TV news in decades – I find it interesting.
- Imagenuity 2y ago
  And merely suggesting watching less trashy news brings cries of "Quit watching? Inconceivable!" As an optimist that likewise doesn't watch the news. it is interesting the many traps of things of false worthiness people get caught up in.
  - tpmoney 2y ago
    It's easy to feel like you have a responsibility to be informed, and as a result you have to be drinking from the fire hose all the time. I noticed myself getting into that habit and that it was dragging me down to places I didn't want to be. After spending some time thinking about it I came to the conclusion that there are very very very few things that happen in this world that would change for the worse if I didn't find out about it until a week later. As a result there's no need to be plugged in 24/7. I can get updates on things once or so a week and the world will go on exactly as it would have if I was plugged in every day, but my mental health will be much better. Bonus is that I don't have to wade through the fog of "breaking news", I can get a more accurate and complete picture the first time rather than drips and drabs over a week.
creakingstairs 2y ago
I’d been a cynical and nervous wreck for early part of my life. And I still get episodes of paralysing gloom and doom. Something I often I tell myself is “despite” all the [negative things], I will be a positive force in the world and that is something to be proud of. It is easy to be positive during good times and it is difficult to be positive in hard times, but it’s worth it _because_ it’s hard. I’ve never been a religious person, but I’ve been thinking more and more about religious allegories and how it fits this mindset. Anyhow, there is something about the word “despite”(그럼에도) that rings my soul. So I mutter it to myself all the time.
keybored 2y ago
I will happily read concrete advice on how to be optimistic and less negative. It’s amazing how much of your day—could be your whole day—can be preoccupied with negative thoughts. That just go nowhere; worry is negativity without action or planning. So let’s hear that. Journaling? Practicing the m-word? But this article provides nothing. I was thinking that the article might have a clickbait “just do it” because they have some neat hack to switch your perspective. They don’t. Just be the opposite of a complainer. Not to mention that complaining has a social and psychological function. Do you have any idea how terrible it is to live in an environment where you think certain things are awful but airing it seems impossible because, you know, it might just be you? Then someone else complains to you and you realize that you’re not alone? Well of course you have. That’s the human experience unless you are a complete optimistic outlier. Complaining in moderation serves a function. Yes and I do mean complaining. Not just matter of factly bringing up issues in an objective manner and then perishing the negative thoughts to the void.[1] There are socially appropriate ways to complain (like to your friends about the hotel, not venting to random hotel staff). And if you complain too much you need to cut down on that. But this article won’t help with that. > There is, for example, a common sentiment among younger generations that their ability to purchase a home is completely out of their hands. The boomer generation fucked them, the government isn’t helping, and that’s that. No home, no retirement. People complain as if it’s already been decided. Who’s really the 60-year-old champagne drinker here? [1] Do they really perish though? Or do they stew subconsciously?
drewcoo 2y ago
It's probable that most complainers are optimists. Why complain unless you think it will help somehow? How can you make things better if you have nothing to complain about? If you don't think things can be better, are you really an optimist?
ninalanyon 2y ago
I mostly agree but sometimes you have to complain and persistently too: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” George Bernard Shaw
- temp0826 2y ago
  I don't think being unreasonable implies optimism or pessimism
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    yup, but “unreasonableness” will always lean to pessimism by association
runicelf 2y ago
This guy decided that people fall into two categories: those who always complain and those who never do. But in reality, people might complain about some things while being quite satisfied with others, so it’s not a binary state. And if there’s no binary state, the point of the article falls apart.
bccdee 2y ago
Getting stuck in traffic is a terrible experience because you're almost entirely helpless. The only choice you have is whether or not to complain. Complaining can be very cathartic, but it can also get you down. If you can't help but complain—or won't let yourself complain—your single degree of freedom is lost, and you become totally helpless. I wouldn't say "don't complain"—just be mindful about complaining. It's a choice worth thinking about. > There is, for example, a common sentiment among younger generations that their ability to purchase a home is completely out of their hands. [...] Some of those talking points might be true. But are they useful? This is an unfortunate type of anti-politics. It actually does matter whether this is true—it affects how we run our society. Dwelling on unpleasant truths is not good for you, but ignoring them is bad for all of us.
swah 2y ago
Article still here: https://web.archive.org/web/20250501180905/https://quarter--mile.com/You-Could-Just-Choose-Optimism https://web.archive.org/web/20250501180905/https://quarter--...
workfromspace 2y ago
I generally understand the idea of being less complaining and more pleasant better for yourself and others; but especially from the second half of the writing I got the feeling that the writing suggests no complaining at all. I am all for in for good complaining: shouldn't we complain about the actual bad things? If someone is evil, or complaining about dictators.. And the examples he gave particularly sounds like the author(s) is in for shittification and blackwashing. > There are entire YouTube channels dedicated to complaining about Disney’s Star Wars. When the video game Assassin’s Creed: Shadows was announced, thousands of people spent large chunks of their lives whining about it online.

146 points by surprisetalk 2y ago

There’s an article recently posted about a violin built in a concentration camp. Talk about optimism… The point is that someone in bad circumstances can focus on the task and the horror of what they endure can subside. It’s definitely possible to choose optimism and end up improving one’s situation.

iugtmkbdfil834 2y ago
<< The point is that someone in bad circumstances can focus on the task There is something to be said about being able to focus on something other than your immediate surroundings. This one guy[1], for example, was apparently focused on the task of infiltrating Auschwitz. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Aeglaecia 2y ago
  of course the work of viktor frankl must also be noted here
  - dirtyhippiefree 2y ago
    Absolutely, but continuing the thought will result in a long list…

kevmo314 2y ago

Isn’t this article complaining about complaints? Does that make it paradoxical? I think complaints, even gossipy ones, hold value. I agree with the general premise that it’s easier to complain, but in the hotel towel footnote honestly I’d complain to my friends because it’s a story to tell, not because I expect them to actually avoid the hotel. Misery loves company.

kgwxd 2y ago
It's not paradoxical to defend against offense with offense.
- kevmo314 2y ago
  Ok perhaps paradoxical isn't the right word, self-refuting maybe?
  - kgwxd 2y ago
    Sorry, it was similar enough that you triggered my automatic "tolerance is not a paradox" response. I'm sure you weren't trying to justify all forms of "complaining" with pseudo-intellectual BS so, please forgive me for lashing out :) I agree, there's a funny thing about it, but to me it's more optimistic ;) It's like a very good point is being made, it's not perfect but, somehow, that point could be used to sharpen itself.
- Jensson 2y ago
  There was no offense here though, he could have just chosen optimism and tried to see the best in these people but he choose not to.
Lalabadie 2y ago
"This deserves improvement" and "this deserves complaining and I will refuse to enjoy it" are two independent conclusions that don't need to come together. I doubt think the article is doing the former, while you're suggesting that it can't come without implying the latter.
- kevmo314 2y ago
  The article is definitely suggesting the former... But even the article doesn't describe the latter either. Grouchy G could have enjoyed the flight despite being a complainer, we really don't know.
  - 2y ago

deadbabe 2y ago

[flagged]

internet2000 2y ago

[flagged]

AstroBen 2y ago
no one will stop me from being sad! How dare they!
- kgwxd 2y ago
  You just sarcasmed in public. How dare you!
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    Please just choose optimism.
sulam 2y ago
It’s an em-dash!
- rhet0rica 2y ago
  I hope not. That's even weirder!
- parrit 2y ago
  en-dash my friend

codr7 2y ago

You often can't choose what happens to you, but you can always choose how you react.

blackhaj7 2y ago

This is one of those excellent articles that nicely synthesises lots of your own less articulate thoughts Also, I forwarded it to my wife…

kgwxd 2y ago
Agreed. Also, sorry about the divorce.
- squigz 2y ago
  What?
  - Jensson 2y ago
    Presumably the article would be used as ammo in an argument with his wife. Doing that is a good way to break a relationship. Not saying that is what happened, but that is what the commenter meant.
    - squigz 2y ago
      Or it could be used to help push each other to grow, like how most adult relationships work.
  - benji-york 2y ago
    My guess: optimism vs pessimism joke.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

andoando 2y ago

Too much optimism isn't good either. Some things are just shit, and you should avoid them.

Trasmatta 2y ago

From Carl Jung: > By not being aware of having a shadow, you declare a part of your personality to be non-existent. Then it enters the kingdom of the non-existent, which swells up and takes on enormous proportions…If you get rid of qualities you don’t like by denying them, you become more and more unaware of what you are, you declare yourself more and more non-existent, and your devils will grow fatter and fatter. You can't "optimism away" the "negative" emotions. You just bury them, but they continue to live in your system, and find their own ways out eventually. It's easy to fall into the trap of endless negativity. It's also easy to fall into the trap of toxic positivity, where you refuse to process pain or the "negative" because you're trying so hard to force the positive.

LeonB 2y ago
Bertie Wooster > “I never actually knew I had an unconscious mind, but I suppose I must have done all along, without realising it.”
tbrownaw 2y ago
> You can't "optimism away" the "negative" emotions. You just bury them, but they continue to live in your system, and find their own ways out eventually. That means you're doing it wrong.
- Trasmatta 2y ago
  Sadness, anger, grief, loneliness, fear, these are all emotions that are part of being human, and they don't just go away (they just get buried or bypassed). They're also emotions that contribute to the richness of being human, and shouldn't go away. Instead they should be understood and integrated into the whole.
- BeetleB 2y ago
  What I know for sure is that shallow dismissals are wrong.
  - tbrownaw 2y ago

jonstewart 2y ago

Optimism, pessimism, meh. In the tradition of tech, I choose skepticism. Two old guys ordering champagne on flights, a couple weeks apart, perfectly embodying the issue of the essay? Reads like a Just So story to me, better suited to LinkedIn.

alganet 2y ago

I did. It's great.

cut3 2y ago

Thanks, a helpful reminder.

macrocosmos 2y ago

The way text resizes on that website is so strange. It's actually amazing how awful it is. Like they went out of their way to ensure it resizes in the most ridiculous possible manner. And the zoom on my browser does nothing. Absolutely amazing.

sambapa 2y ago
I suppose that you have merely seen the text ;)
cadamsdotcom 2y ago
I like how positive you are about it!
ryandrake 2y ago
Yea, wow. The very first thing I do on most websites is CMD-+ to make the text larger and to make it fit my browser window horizontally, and somehow this site managed to be so bad that it prevents even that. I don't know how we keep furthering this trend of having a web site be a 5 inch wide strip of tiny font text down the middle of the browser window, with double that in whitespace on either side.

rekenaut 2y ago

I've discovered that the people I most enjoy being around are those that are authentically optimistic. Not those that are blind to everything negative, and not those who are faking it to ameliorate themselves, but those who are encouraged by the opportunity for a better tomorrow. Astonishingly, these are often people that have suffered overwhelming personal tragedy. I've also noticed that the more time I spend around these people, the more emotionally resilient I become myself to difficulties. There seems to be common sentiment that being optimistic is somehow ignorant or otherwise insidious. Maybe this is true, but I am already too familiar with the acute pain that comes with a life entrenched in pessimism to allow myself to fall into that spiral.

Aeglaecia 2y ago
i posit that the term optimism in its common usage conflates hope and delusion , hope being a subset of delusion that is consciously utilised in stimulating behaviour percieved to bring one closer to their goals , as opposed to a collapse of agency into pure fantasy disconnected from reality ... by demarcating these two concepts it is shown that optimism groups potentials both insidious and beautiful ... as usual, evidenciary of good and bad not being mutually exclusive ...
whartung 2y ago
> Astonishingly, these are often people that have suffered overwhelming personal tragedy. It sounds cliche, but a pair of the most powerful people I’ve known (in terms of personality) are near death survivors. One was in a small plane crash, the other was a SEAL that went into Grenada. He had rather long scar on his neck. Very positive people, almost, but not quite, devil may care. And it brings to mind a line from an early episode from “The Expanse”, where a character nearly died and, later returned on a dangerous mission. About how he should have died before, and now he was on bonus time. I’m not convinced folks can talk themselves into the mindset that may come from experiences like that. It’s old news, we’ve all heard it. But, most of us, seemingly, are unconvinced.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  Coincidentally, NY Times had a front page article on this topic today: https://archive.vn/MjADI https://archive.vn/MjADI

bdbenton5255 2y ago

Optimism is the only choice for many of us. Especially for those trying to find work in this slump, persistence pays off in the end. The voice of Nature loudly cries, And many a message from the skies, That something in us never dies: - Robert Burns

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sulam 2y ago

“Has it occurred to Thomas that he might be the problem?” Biggest laugh I’ve had all week!

aimor 2y ago

https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/rudyard-kipling/just-so-stories/text/the-butterfly-that-stamped https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/rudyard-kipling/just-so-st...

globnomulous 2y ago

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prmph 2y ago
Don't know why you are being down-voted, but your comment is spot on. Of course being a complainer just by nature or for the fun of it is not constructive. But oh my, it amazes to no end how fragile the egos of people in general are.
- globnomulous 2y ago
  To be fair to other users, I was rightly downvoted, I think, for a less-than-constructive "go fuck yourself," which I've since replaced with "spare me."

binary132 2y ago

This is bait for complainers.

mberning 2y ago

After 40+ years of life experience I understand why some people fall to their knees daily and beg for mercy. If getting champagne or a latte or whatever is enough to scratch your itch I applaud you. I envy you.

kgwxd 2y ago

> Choosing optimism may feel cheesy, even embarrassing, at first. Just go on the hike. Tell others you're going if you'd like, maybe they'll go too, but saying "it might be fun..." feels something like a complaint. "I pride myself on being optimistic, so of course I have to mention how everyone else is being pessimistic." That's why it feels embarrassing.

abc-1 2y ago

It depends. If someone complains about something and then fixes it, I’ll take them over the toxic optimist. There is nothing inherently wrong with complaining, what matters is the intent behind it. A complaint can be constructive, mean, funny, or any other number of good or bad things.

getpost 2y ago

Being optimistic is normally a good strategy for success, but it doesn't feel appropriate in dire circumstances, such as at the onset of World War 2. 70+ million people died, not to mention all the injuries, crimes, and environmental destruction. Saying "Think positive, the Allies will win!" in 1939 would have rung hollow. Instead of optimism, there needs to be a grim determination. I put that statement to ChatGPT, and it reminded me of Churchill's "We Shall Fight on the Beaches"[0] speech, which is defiant, rather than optimistic. Once again we seem to be in dire circumstances, on the brink of colossal ruin, owing the the whims of a handful toxic people, and the ignorance of so many who put them into power. I'm not at all optimistic, but I can try for grim determination. [0] https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1940-the-finest-hour/we-shall-fight-on-the-beaches/ https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1940-the-fin...

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photonthug 2y ago

Optimism vs pessimism is a false dichotomy. Anyone can phrase any question in the format of a yes/no or as for/against, and this is very frequently just a way of controlling the entire direction of the conversation. A realist would talk about pros/cons together, possibly in equal measure, and possibly not, and will actively resist absolute categorization of the remarks. A skeptic would ask, is your specific degree of optimism/pessimism on this thing warranted, and is this even the thing we want to be talking about? By comparison.. Why would you ever want to talk to an optimist or a pessimist, much less aspire to be either one?

bravetraveler 2y ago

When, in the history of everything, has anyone ever 'just'

socalgal2 2y ago

hmmm, the example of people complaining about Disney Star Wars - they took something beloved and shat on it for cheap $ - I'd like the people watching a new Star Wars to get the wonder I got out of eps 4-5-6. The fact that the ruined that feels worth mentioning. That said, I just wrote it out of my life and moved on. Is the South Park episode about Indiana Jones ep4 complaing? https://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/zwjhca/south-park-the-china-probrem-season-12-ep-8 https://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/zwjhca/south-park-...

whytaka 2y ago

I, for one, find joy and humor in my complaining.

erxam 2y ago

Frankly, I just don't see how any sort of optimism can survive the moment you step out of the house. It goes beyond the internet. The real world is an excruciating parade of torture, and no amount of self-platitudes or of positive thoughts will change the reality of the situation. Sure, you can try and not have anxiety. Live in the moment. But someone is eventually going to take advantage of that and you'll be worse off. That can only happen so many times before you start reevaluating your thoughts, intentions aside. Personally, the only times I've ever felt good about the world and how everything was going to be okay have been when I'm using opioids, hidden away in a corner of my room.

jen729w 2y ago
No it isn't. The world's amazing. Just yesterday I went to the shop. A man was carrying an animal to the vet. He said g'day on his way past. Then I had a nice chat with the lady at the post office about her kid's birthday this weekend. I'd overheard her telling the previous customer about it, so I continued the conversation despite being a stranger to her. Then I tried to buy a slab of beer at a place but it was too expensive. Had a nice chat to the lady there though. That was about all. A quiet day. But really lovely. Nobody took advantage. Nothing bad happened. No woes or tribulations. Just a nice day with reasonable weather. What happened to you yesterday?
- prmph 2y ago
  I hope you are being sarcastic. > A man was carrying an animal to the vet. He said g'day on his way past. Then I had a nice chat with the lady at the post office about her kid's birthday this weekend. And these shallow almost-no-effort-required conversations are what convince you that everything is good? For some, people making these polite conversations to hide the awfulness of life itself is maddening. Not that such interaction is bad, but try to build on them to create any sort of meaningful relationship and see what happens. > Nobody took advantage. Nothing bad happened. No woes or tribulations. For you. I bet you many people were taken advantage of, killed, died from lack of food, were verbally abused, neglected emotionally, etc... that day
  - 2y ago

000ooo000 2y ago

Kind of ironic that TFA came after their previous piece. >I Literally Don’t Know >TL;DR: You don’t need to pick my brain, or probably anyone’s brain, for general life advice. It won’t help. Overall the Optimism piece is just long-form LinkedIn garbage. What insights does it present? Complaining bad, optimism good, not all complaining is bad, but complaining is mostly bad? OK.. Improvements rarely start with "I'm satisfied with this". Writing off complaining because one conflates complaining with misery is silly.

tpmoney 2y ago
> Improvements rarely start with "I'm satisfied with this". Writing off complaining because one conflates complaining with misery is silly. I've found improvements rarely start with complaining either. Or maybe it's more accurate to say that people I know that are complainers are rarely the source of improvements. They're usually too busy complaining about the situation and the proposed solutions to pick one. Improvements most often come from a mindset of "this thing is not the way I want it to be, so what am I going to do to change that?" Sometimes "complain to someone with the ability to change it" is the right answer, but usually you have some degree of agency yourself and it's a lot more effective to exercise that agency than to get someone else to act on your behalf in response to your complaints.
- 1dom 2y ago
  I see it like a scale of how easy it is to deal with a problem. The easiest thing is to stew and do nothing. Next easiest thing is to is to sit around and complain. After that comes actually doing something about the problem. I think efficient, productive, optimistic people are people who don't have the ramp up time of stewing and complaining, and it becomes self perpetuating: they have a better life that's easy to be optimistic about because problems get solved by themselves without issues ("complaints").
kcb 2y ago
Improvements start because someone has a better solution to a problem, not just complaining about the current solution. We should implement x because it fixes these problems with current solution. Rather than just current solution is bad.

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jgr0007 2y ago

"I wish there were more good role models of this behavior. Or maybe there are, and I’m too much of a grouchy complainer to see them. Who comes to mind for you?" Immediately thought of, and could not stop thinking of the Calvin & Hobbes camping trip. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/candh/images/3/30/8-16.gif/revision/latest?cb=20120215033025 https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/candh/images/3/30/8-16.gif...

jen729w 2y ago

I'm living (temporarily) with someone who obsessively watches the news on TV. And not the good news. The trashy, commercial-channel news. 'Oh who cares about this rubbish!', they'll say to the screen. Or 'who cares about these people, why do we need to see this?', or 'why do we give these people attention?'. As someone who identifies as an optimist – and who hasn't watched any form of TV news in decades – I find it interesting.

Imagenuity 2y ago
And merely suggesting watching less trashy news brings cries of "Quit watching? Inconceivable!" As an optimist that likewise doesn't watch the news. it is interesting the many traps of things of false worthiness people get caught up in.
- tpmoney 2y ago
  It's easy to feel like you have a responsibility to be informed, and as a result you have to be drinking from the fire hose all the time. I noticed myself getting into that habit and that it was dragging me down to places I didn't want to be. After spending some time thinking about it I came to the conclusion that there are very very very few things that happen in this world that would change for the worse if I didn't find out about it until a week later. As a result there's no need to be plugged in 24/7. I can get updates on things once or so a week and the world will go on exactly as it would have if I was plugged in every day, but my mental health will be much better. Bonus is that I don't have to wade through the fog of "breaking news", I can get a more accurate and complete picture the first time rather than drips and drabs over a week.

creakingstairs 2y ago

I’d been a cynical and nervous wreck for early part of my life. And I still get episodes of paralysing gloom and doom. Something I often I tell myself is “despite” all the [negative things], I will be a positive force in the world and that is something to be proud of. It is easy to be positive during good times and it is difficult to be positive in hard times, but it’s worth it _because_ it’s hard. I’ve never been a religious person, but I’ve been thinking more and more about religious allegories and how it fits this mindset. Anyhow, there is something about the word “despite”(그럼에도) that rings my soul. So I mutter it to myself all the time.

keybored 2y ago

I will happily read concrete advice on how to be optimistic and less negative. It’s amazing how much of your day—could be your whole day—can be preoccupied with negative thoughts. That just go nowhere; worry is negativity without action or planning. So let’s hear that. Journaling? Practicing the m-word? But this article provides nothing. I was thinking that the article might have a clickbait “just do it” because they have some neat hack to switch your perspective. They don’t. Just be the opposite of a complainer. Not to mention that complaining has a social and psychological function. Do you have any idea how terrible it is to live in an environment where you think certain things are awful but airing it seems impossible because, you know, it might just be you? Then someone else complains to you and you realize that you’re not alone? Well of course you have. That’s the human experience unless you are a complete optimistic outlier. Complaining in moderation serves a function. Yes and I do mean complaining. Not just matter of factly bringing up issues in an objective manner and then perishing the negative thoughts to the void.[1] There are socially appropriate ways to complain (like to your friends about the hotel, not venting to random hotel staff). And if you complain too much you need to cut down on that. But this article won’t help with that. > There is, for example, a common sentiment among younger generations that their ability to purchase a home is completely out of their hands. The boomer generation fucked them, the government isn’t helping, and that’s that. No home, no retirement. People complain as if it’s already been decided. Who’s really the 60-year-old champagne drinker here? [1] Do they really perish though? Or do they stew subconsciously?

drewcoo 2y ago

It's probable that most complainers are optimists. Why complain unless you think it will help somehow? How can you make things better if you have nothing to complain about? If you don't think things can be better, are you really an optimist?

ninalanyon 2y ago

I mostly agree but sometimes you have to complain and persistently too: “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” George Bernard Shaw

temp0826 2y ago
I don't think being unreasonable implies optimism or pessimism
- bdangubic 2y ago
  yup, but “unreasonableness” will always lean to pessimism by association

runicelf 2y ago

This guy decided that people fall into two categories: those who always complain and those who never do. But in reality, people might complain about some things while being quite satisfied with others, so it’s not a binary state. And if there’s no binary state, the point of the article falls apart.

bccdee 2y ago

Getting stuck in traffic is a terrible experience because you're almost entirely helpless. The only choice you have is whether or not to complain. Complaining can be very cathartic, but it can also get you down. If you can't help but complain—or won't let yourself complain—your single degree of freedom is lost, and you become totally helpless. I wouldn't say "don't complain"—just be mindful about complaining. It's a choice worth thinking about. > There is, for example, a common sentiment among younger generations that their ability to purchase a home is completely out of their hands. [...] Some of those talking points might be true. But are they useful? This is an unfortunate type of anti-politics. It actually does matter whether this is true—it affects how we run our society. Dwelling on unpleasant truths is not good for you, but ignoring them is bad for all of us.

swah 2y ago

Article still here: https://web.archive.org/web/20250501180905/https://quarter--mile.com/You-Could-Just-Choose-Optimism https://web.archive.org/web/20250501180905/https://quarter--...

workfromspace 2y ago

I generally understand the idea of being less complaining and more pleasant better for yourself and others; but especially from the second half of the writing I got the feeling that the writing suggests no complaining at all. I am all for in for good complaining: shouldn't we complain about the actual bad things? If someone is evil, or complaining about dictators.. And the examples he gave particularly sounds like the author(s) is in for shittification and blackwashing. > There are entire YouTube channels dedicated to complaining about Disney’s Star Wars. When the video game Assassin’s Creed: Shadows was announced, thousands of people spent large chunks of their lives whining about it online.