9 ms·

People died while trying to get better, more humane working conditions. I tend to think we forget that things we enjoy today were won through, sometimes violen

People died while trying to get better, more humane working conditions. I tend to think we forget that things we enjoy today were won through, sometimes violent, struggle, and we take them for granted, what makes it easier to lose them. To me this is one of the most important celebrations.

bawolff 1y ago
One thing i find interesting is how rarely labour struggles are depicted in mainstream tv/movies. We have every type of revolutionary tv shows, including some fairly rediculous ones (e.g. divergent) but almost never strikes. The only exception i can really think of is that one episode of battlestar galactica (maybe give star trek ds9 half a point because they treated it in such a silly fashion).
- potato3732842 1y ago
  >One thing i find interesting is how rarely labour struggles are depicted in mainstream tv/movies. Same reason all sorts of other stuff has gone nearly extinct. Mainstream entertainment media is subject to the same eyeball-hour based economics as everything else and that content doesn't resonate with enough people.
  - bawolff 1y ago
    Given how every second piece of mainstream entertainment is about sticking it to the man, i find that reasoning a little uncompelling.
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      You can't make a hollywood movie or expensive TV series or other top tier content about something that can't be repackaged and resold to foreign audiences.
      - archagon 1y ago
        China would love an American movie about the working class rising up against the bourgeoisie. (I think that’s the real reason these movies don’t get made: they’re too “Communist” for American audiences.)
        Anthony-G 1y ago
        Such films might be too “communist” for Americans but they would definitely be too “communist” for the current Chinese Communist Party. They might call themselves communists or socialists but the last thing they want is for Chinese workers to get ideas about organising autonomously and collectively. The last time this happened in 1989, they were ruthlessly crushed by the dominant, conservative wing of the CCP. https://jacobin.com/2019/06/tiananmen-square-worker-organization-socialist-democracy https://jacobin.com/2019/06/tiananmen-square-worker-organiza...
        mensetmanusman 1y ago
        Yeah they jail communists now. They went full totalitarian.
        arrowsmith 1y ago
        Communist regimes jail communists too.
  - vkou 1y ago
    Are you sure the tail isn't wagging the dog?
- philistine 1y ago
  The 2014 film [Pride](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_(2014_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_(2014_film)) is probably the best example of this reality you're describing; there are indeed few movies about workers' struggle.
- vidarh 1y ago
  I'm not sure I agree DS9 treated it in all that silly fashion, beyond involving the Ferengi's. It's part of what makes Rom's arc one that shows the greatest character development in Trek. It's also one of few depictions of strikes in US TV that treated the strikers with substantially more sympathy than their counterpart. Incidentally, this is another parallel to Babylon 5, which also had a strike, and were the negotiator that was brought in was a really unsympathetic caricature. DS9 even managed to paraphrase the Communist Manifesto, and still painted the strikers in a good light.
  - cess11 1y ago
    The premise of Star Trek kind of is 'what if we reached communism and hence could science up actual space travel?', which DS9 somewhat digresses from by having these episodes about social struggle like the bar strike and the battle of the sanctuary district as well as the genocide arcs. It speaks to the foundational values of the franchise being widely accepted that the strike episode is what is remembered as the labour thing, as if a lot of people would like the results of an egalitarian society but have been taught that the means to achieve it are somehow controversial.
    - philipallstar 1y ago
      If you're still inventing and discovering things, you probably don't have communism, because not all inventions are distributed equally (straight away) and not all places can be shared by all people.
      - vidarh 1y ago
        Communism does not require equal distribution. In fact Marx argued communism explicitly requires unequal distribution. In Critique of the Gotha Program he outright ridiculed what is now the German SDP for demanding that "the proceeds of labor belong undiminished with equal right to all members of society". He went on to write: "Further, one worker is married, another is not; one has more children than another, and so on and so forth. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal." Later in the same text he then reiterated the traditional socialist slogan, that explicitly also rejects equal distribution: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!"
- lwo32k 1y ago
  It's a very very messy process and most of the time doesn't end well because of the power imbalance. Larger the worker group more the disagreements amongst them too. My Dad was a factory manager and I grew up running around the factory, playing with workers, they would help me on my school projects etc. The same guys beat my Dad up during one particular strike. Many of them got arrested and we had a cop outside our house for months.
- PsylentKnight 1y ago
  Labor struggles are a central theme of Disco Elysium
- moomin 1y ago
  DS9 episode is worth it just for “He was more than a hero, he was a union man.”
  - ta1243 1y ago
    I love the juxtaposition with the character Meaney played on Hell on Wheels
- arrowsmith 1y ago
  The wonderful movie Billy Elliot takes place against the backdrop of the 1984-85 UK miners’ strike, probably the most significant labour struggle in modern British history. Although it might not be the type of movie you’re looking for, because the miners lost.
  - philipallstar 1y ago
    And because the miners were causing power blackouts in the UK, and they were far, far less efficient than overseas sources, or alternatives to coal-fired power stations.
  - duncanfwalker 1y ago
    I'd say it was The Full Monty and Brassed Off. I'd say it was almost a mini-genre at the start of the Blair years. There's also Made in Dagenham. There's probably lots of french language films with workers struggle. The one that springs to mind is the hilarious satire Louise-Michel
- latexr 1y ago
  > maybe give star trek ds9 half a point because they treated it in such a silly fashion For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Association_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Association_(Star_Trek:_De...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Anthony-G 1y ago
  Cynical me suspects that the large corporations who get to decide which TV show or feature films get to be made are opposed to depicting workers organising and acting on behalf of their collective interest. This seems to be particularly true in America more so than Europe, e.g, Brassed Off, a British film from the mid-nineties realistically displays working class culture associated with labour unions at a time when the unions were struggling against the closure of the coal pits. Interestingly, according to its Wikipedia article¹, “In the United States, the film was promoted simply as a romantic comedy involving McGregor and Fitzgerald's characters.” On the other hand, Season 4 of For All Mankind depicted a strike of private sector workers in such an unrealistic, ham-fisted way that it couldn’t be taken seriously – much like many of the other half-assed story-lines that were crammed into the show for Seasons 3 and 4. ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassed_Off https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassed_Off
  - arrowsmith 1y ago
    Hollywood is completely dominated by liberal progressives, wtf are you talking about?
    - pesus 1y ago
      Progressive socially =/= labor friendly/left wing political views. The executives running things are always going to be in favor of increasing their profits over anything else. Strong labor protections/rights usually get in the way of that. This also applies to a large portion of wealthy people in general, and there are many of them in Hollywood.
    - malfist 1y ago
      The talent? Sure they're probably liberal. The bosses? Not a chance.
- KolmogorovComp 1y ago
  This is a US-specific take. European cinema, especially French but also Italian have many many films depicting strikes, as the main plot.
- anchochilis 1y ago
  It's not explicitly pro-union, but this made me think of the Dolly Parton song "9 to 5": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbxUSsFXYo4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbxUSsFXYo4
  - triceratops 1y ago
    Apparently it was written for the movie of the same name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_to_5_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_to_5_(film)
- mike_ivanov 1y ago
  Over the Top (1987) with Sylvester Stallone comes to mind
- vkou 1y ago
  The resolution to that BSG episode was, also, on-the-nose consistent to its resolution for most of its political crises - everyone needs to sit down and shut up and get in line, because despite the veneer of representative government, they are living in a military dictatorship, where decisions are solely at the whims of Adama. Who, despite all his flaws, (unlike the president, generally speaking) is not a bad person. But is very much a dictator (which was his job as the commander of a military vessel).
  - bawolff 1y ago
    The biggest problem with that episode is not the ending per se, but that there were no lasting consequences. Everyone went back to being friends the next episode.
- evolve2k 1y ago
  Severance quietly covers the topic. The conversations in season 1 on the Macrodata refinement uprisings and that big painting of the event come to mind.
- triceratops 1y ago
  I don't know if that's true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire_season_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire_season_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_and_Girls_(The_Office) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_and_Girls_(The_Office) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_Rae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_Rae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Chavez_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Chavez_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Waterfront https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Waterfront https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Exit_to_Brooklyn_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Exit_to_Brooklyn_(film) But it's true the topic hasn't been en vogue for a while.
  - muxator 1y ago
    Kudos for mentioning the second season of The Wire. At first, when watching the season, the theme felt misplaced, but it ended up being a very well done sociological exploration on deindustrialization. Given the current geopolitical issues it seems relevant even in contemporary times.
    - triceratops 1y ago
      I already knew before watching the show that each season focused on a different aspect of Baltimore; though I didn't know any spoilers or major plot points. So I wasn't as thrown as most first-time viewers always seem to be. I quite liked it my first time.
  - antifa 1y ago
    I've never heard of any of those, so maybe it is true?
    - triceratops 1y ago
      Literal Oscar-winners, critic favorites, and even a mass-market sitcom (just added it because I thought of it after writing the comment) on that list. Maybe you're not into pop culture?
      - 1y ago
rvb 1y ago
"The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting." — Milan Kundera, The Book of Laughter and Forgetting
belter 1y ago
The US minimum wage is at $7.25 per hour since..24 Jul 2009, that is 16 years ago. Taking into account cumulative inflation US workers enjoy now about 68 % of the 2009 purchasing power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta...
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  The vast majority of US workers live in jurisdictions with higher minimum wages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_states_by_minimum_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_states_by_minimum_w... In the biggest state with just the federal minimum wage, Texas, individual income percentile of $20k per year ($10 per hour/40 hour work weeks/50 weeks per year) is 20th percentile. That will capture all the part time workers too, so it seems the lowest priced labor in most US labor markets is disjoint from the federal US minimum wage. https://dqydj.com/scripts/cps/2024_income_calculators/2024_income_by_state.html https://dqydj.com/scripts/cps/2024_income_calculators/2024_i...
  - belter 1y ago
    So it should not be a problem to raise it... "Scott Bessent believes federal minimum wage should not be increased" - https://www.nbcnews.com/video/scott-bessent-believes-federal-minimum-wage-should-not-be-increased-229500485731 https://www.nbcnews.com/video/scott-bessent-believes-federal...
    - LanceH 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - monknomo 1y ago
        you are hardly steel-manning something with a comment like that If you look at minimum wage purchasing power over time, it peaked in about 1970, with about $15-equivalent 2025 dollars. That tracks fairly closely with purchasing power having declined 68% since the last time minimum wages were updated. Should probably tie it to inflation while we're in there
0max 1y ago
I’m thankful that the career I’ve had helped me learn about the organizations that had an impact in that history and a new lens to see the world with.
nwhnwh 1y ago
Still not good enough.

bawolff 1y ago

One thing i find interesting is how rarely labour struggles are depicted in mainstream tv/movies. We have every type of revolutionary tv shows, including some fairly rediculous ones (e.g. divergent) but almost never strikes. The only exception i can really think of is that one episode of battlestar galactica (maybe give star trek ds9 half a point because they treated it in such a silly fashion).

potato3732842 1y ago
>One thing i find interesting is how rarely labour struggles are depicted in mainstream tv/movies. Same reason all sorts of other stuff has gone nearly extinct. Mainstream entertainment media is subject to the same eyeball-hour based economics as everything else and that content doesn't resonate with enough people.
- bawolff 1y ago
  Given how every second piece of mainstream entertainment is about sticking it to the man, i find that reasoning a little uncompelling.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    You can't make a hollywood movie or expensive TV series or other top tier content about something that can't be repackaged and resold to foreign audiences.
    - archagon 1y ago
      China would love an American movie about the working class rising up against the bourgeoisie. (I think that’s the real reason these movies don’t get made: they’re too “Communist” for American audiences.)
      - Anthony-G 1y ago
        Such films might be too “communist” for Americans but they would definitely be too “communist” for the current Chinese Communist Party. They might call themselves communists or socialists but the last thing they want is for Chinese workers to get ideas about organising autonomously and collectively. The last time this happened in 1989, they were ruthlessly crushed by the dominant, conservative wing of the CCP. https://jacobin.com/2019/06/tiananmen-square-worker-organization-socialist-democracy https://jacobin.com/2019/06/tiananmen-square-worker-organiza...
        mensetmanusman 1y ago
        Yeah they jail communists now. They went full totalitarian.
        arrowsmith 1y ago
        Communist regimes jail communists too.
- vkou 1y ago
  Are you sure the tail isn't wagging the dog?
philistine 1y ago
The 2014 film [Pride](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_(2014_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_(2014_film)) is probably the best example of this reality you're describing; there are indeed few movies about workers' struggle.
vidarh 1y ago
I'm not sure I agree DS9 treated it in all that silly fashion, beyond involving the Ferengi's. It's part of what makes Rom's arc one that shows the greatest character development in Trek. It's also one of few depictions of strikes in US TV that treated the strikers with substantially more sympathy than their counterpart. Incidentally, this is another parallel to Babylon 5, which also had a strike, and were the negotiator that was brought in was a really unsympathetic caricature. DS9 even managed to paraphrase the Communist Manifesto, and still painted the strikers in a good light.
- cess11 1y ago
  The premise of Star Trek kind of is 'what if we reached communism and hence could science up actual space travel?', which DS9 somewhat digresses from by having these episodes about social struggle like the bar strike and the battle of the sanctuary district as well as the genocide arcs. It speaks to the foundational values of the franchise being widely accepted that the strike episode is what is remembered as the labour thing, as if a lot of people would like the results of an egalitarian society but have been taught that the means to achieve it are somehow controversial.
  - philipallstar 1y ago
    If you're still inventing and discovering things, you probably don't have communism, because not all inventions are distributed equally (straight away) and not all places can be shared by all people.
    - vidarh 1y ago
      Communism does not require equal distribution. In fact Marx argued communism explicitly requires unequal distribution. In Critique of the Gotha Program he outright ridiculed what is now the German SDP for demanding that "the proceeds of labor belong undiminished with equal right to all members of society". He went on to write: "Further, one worker is married, another is not; one has more children than another, and so on and so forth. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal." Later in the same text he then reiterated the traditional socialist slogan, that explicitly also rejects equal distribution: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!"
lwo32k 1y ago
It's a very very messy process and most of the time doesn't end well because of the power imbalance. Larger the worker group more the disagreements amongst them too. My Dad was a factory manager and I grew up running around the factory, playing with workers, they would help me on my school projects etc. The same guys beat my Dad up during one particular strike. Many of them got arrested and we had a cop outside our house for months.
PsylentKnight 1y ago
Labor struggles are a central theme of Disco Elysium
moomin 1y ago
DS9 episode is worth it just for “He was more than a hero, he was a union man.”
- ta1243 1y ago
  I love the juxtaposition with the character Meaney played on Hell on Wheels
arrowsmith 1y ago
The wonderful movie Billy Elliot takes place against the backdrop of the 1984-85 UK miners’ strike, probably the most significant labour struggle in modern British history. Although it might not be the type of movie you’re looking for, because the miners lost.
- philipallstar 1y ago
  And because the miners were causing power blackouts in the UK, and they were far, far less efficient than overseas sources, or alternatives to coal-fired power stations.
- duncanfwalker 1y ago
  I'd say it was The Full Monty and Brassed Off. I'd say it was almost a mini-genre at the start of the Blair years. There's also Made in Dagenham. There's probably lots of french language films with workers struggle. The one that springs to mind is the hilarious satire Louise-Michel
latexr 1y ago
> maybe give star trek ds9 half a point because they treated it in such a silly fashion For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Association_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Association_(Star_Trek:_De...
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Anthony-G 1y ago
Cynical me suspects that the large corporations who get to decide which TV show or feature films get to be made are opposed to depicting workers organising and acting on behalf of their collective interest. This seems to be particularly true in America more so than Europe, e.g, Brassed Off, a British film from the mid-nineties realistically displays working class culture associated with labour unions at a time when the unions were struggling against the closure of the coal pits. Interestingly, according to its Wikipedia article¹, “In the United States, the film was promoted simply as a romantic comedy involving McGregor and Fitzgerald's characters.” On the other hand, Season 4 of For All Mankind depicted a strike of private sector workers in such an unrealistic, ham-fisted way that it couldn’t be taken seriously – much like many of the other half-assed story-lines that were crammed into the show for Seasons 3 and 4. ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassed_Off https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassed_Off
- arrowsmith 1y ago
  Hollywood is completely dominated by liberal progressives, wtf are you talking about?
  - pesus 1y ago
    Progressive socially =/= labor friendly/left wing political views. The executives running things are always going to be in favor of increasing their profits over anything else. Strong labor protections/rights usually get in the way of that. This also applies to a large portion of wealthy people in general, and there are many of them in Hollywood.
  - malfist 1y ago
    The talent? Sure they're probably liberal. The bosses? Not a chance.
KolmogorovComp 1y ago
This is a US-specific take. European cinema, especially French but also Italian have many many films depicting strikes, as the main plot.
anchochilis 1y ago
It's not explicitly pro-union, but this made me think of the Dolly Parton song "9 to 5": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbxUSsFXYo4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbxUSsFXYo4
- triceratops 1y ago
  Apparently it was written for the movie of the same name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_to_5_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_to_5_(film)
mike_ivanov 1y ago
Over the Top (1987) with Sylvester Stallone comes to mind
vkou 1y ago
The resolution to that BSG episode was, also, on-the-nose consistent to its resolution for most of its political crises - everyone needs to sit down and shut up and get in line, because despite the veneer of representative government, they are living in a military dictatorship, where decisions are solely at the whims of Adama. Who, despite all his flaws, (unlike the president, generally speaking) is not a bad person. But is very much a dictator (which was his job as the commander of a military vessel).
- bawolff 1y ago
  The biggest problem with that episode is not the ending per se, but that there were no lasting consequences. Everyone went back to being friends the next episode.
evolve2k 1y ago
Severance quietly covers the topic. The conversations in season 1 on the Macrodata refinement uprisings and that big painting of the event come to mind.
triceratops 1y ago
I don't know if that's true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire_season_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire_season_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_and_Girls_(The_Office) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boys_and_Girls_(The_Office) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_Rae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_Rae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Chavez_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Chavez_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Waterfront https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Waterfront https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Exit_to_Brooklyn_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Exit_to_Brooklyn_(film) But it's true the topic hasn't been en vogue for a while.
- muxator 1y ago
  Kudos for mentioning the second season of The Wire. At first, when watching the season, the theme felt misplaced, but it ended up being a very well done sociological exploration on deindustrialization. Given the current geopolitical issues it seems relevant even in contemporary times.
  - triceratops 1y ago
    I already knew before watching the show that each season focused on a different aspect of Baltimore; though I didn't know any spoilers or major plot points. So I wasn't as thrown as most first-time viewers always seem to be. I quite liked it my first time.
- antifa 1y ago
  I've never heard of any of those, so maybe it is true?
  - triceratops 1y ago
    Literal Oscar-winners, critic favorites, and even a mass-market sitcom (just added it because I thought of it after writing the comment) on that list. Maybe you're not into pop culture?
    - 1y ago

rvb 1y ago

"The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting." — Milan Kundera, The Book of Laughter and Forgetting

belter 1y ago

The US minimum wage is at $7.25 per hour since..24 Jul 2009, that is 16 years ago. Taking into account cumulative inflation US workers enjoy now about 68 % of the 2009 purchasing power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta...

lotsofpulp 1y ago
The vast majority of US workers live in jurisdictions with higher minimum wages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_states_by_minimum_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_states_by_minimum_w... In the biggest state with just the federal minimum wage, Texas, individual income percentile of $20k per year ($10 per hour/40 hour work weeks/50 weeks per year) is 20th percentile. That will capture all the part time workers too, so it seems the lowest priced labor in most US labor markets is disjoint from the federal US minimum wage. https://dqydj.com/scripts/cps/2024_income_calculators/2024_income_by_state.html https://dqydj.com/scripts/cps/2024_income_calculators/2024_i...
- belter 1y ago
  So it should not be a problem to raise it... "Scott Bessent believes federal minimum wage should not be increased" - https://www.nbcnews.com/video/scott-bessent-believes-federal-minimum-wage-should-not-be-increased-229500485731 https://www.nbcnews.com/video/scott-bessent-believes-federal...
  - LanceH 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - monknomo 1y ago
      you are hardly steel-manning something with a comment like that If you look at minimum wage purchasing power over time, it peaked in about 1970, with about $15-equivalent 2025 dollars. That tracks fairly closely with purchasing power having declined 68% since the last time minimum wages were updated. Should probably tie it to inflation while we're in there

0max 1y ago

I’m thankful that the career I’ve had helped me learn about the organizations that had an impact in that history and a new lens to see the world with.

nwhnwh 1y ago

Still not good enough.