4 ms·

We make a lot of money. Money pays for healthcare, childcare, paternity/maternity leave, retirement, food, housing, transportation, in addition to recreation. O

We make a lot of money. Money pays for healthcare, childcare, paternity/maternity leave, retirement, food, housing, transportation, in addition to recreation. Our "struggle" is invented. Oh, career burnout huh? So you're working yourself harder than you have to in order to make more money? Sounds tough. And small equity grants? Oh gosh, how dare they not give us even more money. People who don't make a lot of money struggle to afford all those things, and are worked to death despite it. They don't just have enough and want more. They literally don't have enough to live a life free of struggle. Unions exist because workers were literally being killed by their employers. What's a tech worker's biggest gripe? Being on-call? Not getting a bonus on top of their fat salary? The only time I've ever done a hard day's work as a tech worker was when I joined a shitty startup that was abusive with long hours. I left and joined a normal company and it was smooth sailing. The most painful part of the job is my tennis elbow, but hey, I have a corporate healthcare plan and a $1000 swivel chair. I don't see the point of a union in this environment.

9rx 2y ago
> We make a lot of money. Not compared to many unionized industries. Workers in professional sports and entertainment, for example, which fully embrace labor unions, make software developers look like they work for peanuts. > Unions exist because workers were literally being killed by their employers. Labor unions have formed when death was actually on the horizon because death was on the horizon, but labor unions today are almost exclusively a rich man's sport. The poor aren't poor enough to face certain death, but aren't rich enough to risk the consequences of not working (i.e. striking) for beneficial-but-not-life-threatning demands, so it is not a reasonable choice for them to make. Hence why you almost never find labor unions in low paying jobs. Tech doesn't like unions simply because, as a group, tech doesn't like people. That's what a union is, after all: A group of people who have decided to associate with each other.
- matkoniecz 2y ago
  > Workers in professional sports and entertainment, for example, which fully embrace labor unions, make software developers look like they work for peanuts. I am pretty sure that union is not the most significant part why pay is high here.
  - 9rx 2y ago
    We're all pretty sure of that. How did you come to conclude that others might have thought differently?
    - dang 2y ago
      Please don't post flamewar comments to HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - 9rx 2y ago
        What do you mean by flamewar? The dictionary defines it as "an online dispute or argument characterized by heated, angry, and often abusive exchanges between multiple participants.", which is in line with my understanding, but that isn't applicable here, so I am unsure how to interpret it. Further, the link states that the site is for "Anything that good hackers would find interesting.", which is what the question poses. The answer is something that would be found interesting – that is why it was asked, after all – so it seems the use is perfectly in line with expectations.
        dang 2y ago
        I'm fine with that definition. "We're all pretty sure of that. Where did you dream up this straw man?" is just the kind of provocation that produces that kind of discussion, though. One thing to keep in mind is that most of us underestimate the provocation in our own posts (let's say by 10x) and overestimate the provocation in others' posts (let's say by another 10x) and that leads to quite a skew in perception [1]. I believe this is why everyone always feels like the other person started it / did worse [2]. Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear! [3] [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20%2210x%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22started%20it%22%20worse&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20objects%20mirror%20appear&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

9rx 2y ago

> We make a lot of money. Not compared to many unionized industries. Workers in professional sports and entertainment, for example, which fully embrace labor unions, make software developers look like they work for peanuts. > Unions exist because workers were literally being killed by their employers. Labor unions have formed when death was actually on the horizon because death was on the horizon, but labor unions today are almost exclusively a rich man's sport. The poor aren't poor enough to face certain death, but aren't rich enough to risk the consequences of not working (i.e. striking) for beneficial-but-not-life-threatning demands, so it is not a reasonable choice for them to make. Hence why you almost never find labor unions in low paying jobs. Tech doesn't like unions simply because, as a group, tech doesn't like people. That's what a union is, after all: A group of people who have decided to associate with each other.

matkoniecz 2y ago
> Workers in professional sports and entertainment, for example, which fully embrace labor unions, make software developers look like they work for peanuts. I am pretty sure that union is not the most significant part why pay is high here.
- 9rx 2y ago
  We're all pretty sure of that. How did you come to conclude that others might have thought differently?
  - dang 2y ago
    Please don't post flamewar comments to HN. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - 9rx 2y ago
      What do you mean by flamewar? The dictionary defines it as "an online dispute or argument characterized by heated, angry, and often abusive exchanges between multiple participants.", which is in line with my understanding, but that isn't applicable here, so I am unsure how to interpret it. Further, the link states that the site is for "Anything that good hackers would find interesting.", which is what the question poses. The answer is something that would be found interesting – that is why it was asked, after all – so it seems the use is perfectly in line with expectations.
      - dang 2y ago
        I'm fine with that definition. "We're all pretty sure of that. Where did you dream up this straw man?" is just the kind of provocation that produces that kind of discussion, though. One thing to keep in mind is that most of us underestimate the provocation in our own posts (let's say by 10x) and overestimate the provocation in others' posts (let's say by another 10x) and that leads to quite a skew in perception [1]. I believe this is why everyone always feels like the other person started it / did worse [2]. Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear! [3] [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20%2210x%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22started%20it%22%20worse&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20objects%20mirror%20appear&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...