6 ms·

Young people aren't as happy as they used to be [Global Flourishing Study]

44 points by marojejian 1y ago

marojejian 1y ago
archiv: https://archive.is/Lf3Iw https://archive.is/Lf3Iw
FirmwareBurner 1y ago
Probably because they grew up and started having to pay bills and taxes.
- bigyabai 1y ago
  [flagged]
- ArnoVW 1y ago
  I think that with “as they used to” they mean “as other young people of the same age before them” and not “now that they have grown up”
- koakuma-chan 1y ago
  It's not about money, it's about the lack of hope.
- Apocryphon 1y ago
  How do they do that in the EU, with the youth unemployment rates? https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemploymen...
  - trollbridge 1y ago
    They're having the exact same malaise we're having in North America and ANZ.
mtalantikite 1y ago
Well that's what happens when everything is 2x as expensive as it used to be.
- testfrequency 1y ago
  Millennials have been complaining about this for a while now and we’ve been called lazy. Now it’s Gen Z being lazy. Crazy how every generation that didn’t get a fair opportunity to live a relatively normal life off normal income is considered “lazy” by the superiors
  - marcusb 1y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4IjTUxZORE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4IjTUxZORE (2013)
- alphazard 1y ago
  Young people have most or all of their net worth in cash because they aren't worth much yet, and you need cash to pay for things. They are also more dependent on their job, which pays them in dollars, because they will run out of money quickly without one. Given all that, it baffles me that young people don't identify the economy and inflation specifically as the most important political issue. They're always complaining about stuff that people tell them to care about, not things that materially affect their ability to sustain themselves.
  - btouellette 1y ago
    That would only make sense if they had a lot of net worth which is clearly not the case. If they have $400 in their checking account and a ton of student loans or other debt inflation is actually great for them.
aaroninsf 1y ago
If this were Reddit, it'd qualify for r/noshitsherlock Those holding power today are a generation that never ceded power in the fashion that previous generations did, which directly contributes to the contemporary shitshow of abominable wealth inequity married to the ossified world view, lack of sophistication and comprehension of either contemporary problems nor their solutions, and lack of timeline, characteristic of their ages. While there is no shortage of shrill grifters and abused now abusive collaborators, we are ruled by a bunch of selfish morons and sociopaths in their 70s, many of who are showing active cognitive decline. Why would anyone be happy? This is literally the worst historical moment I have lived and I'm not young myself, and I lived through the Cold War and 9/11. The destruction being wrought in and by the US today is literally incalcuable, a total dismantling of generations of work and careers spent dedicating genius and sweat toward a vision now being shit on openly by those who apparently literally believe they can change reality simply by force-feeding idiocy through entirely owned or coopted media channels on an impoverished fearful populace 24/7. The sooner we see a general strike the better. Which hopefully will result from the entirely predictable absolute economic devastation as tariffs bite. It's January 2020—how are you preparing? Tick tock.
reedf1 1y ago
I can afford a personal burrito taxi - but I rent a tiny one bed for 40% of my salary and starting a family seems out of reach with childcare costs at £3k/mo. The older generations - having landed themselves, became treatlers. Their entire political philosophy is cheap treats. While cheap crap, knick-knacks, fast food and all-inclusive vacations have gotten cheaper; the real meaningful parts of life have drifted out of reach.
- PartiallyTyped 1y ago
  I currently rent with roommates at 28 and commute 40 minutes, it does feel a bit embarrassing but I get to save a bit. But that is not enough to build any meaningful wealth, 12k over a year is peanuts, it takes over a decade to save 100k good luck buying a house… I am genuinely baffled as to how I could potentially escape this… My only exit is over employment or launching some successful business.
  - deadbabe 1y ago
    The escape is to go to parts of the country where home ownership is insanely cheap due to low demand, but people don’t want to do it. Instead they bury their head in the sand and hope their hip urban centers suddenly become affordable.
    - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
      Can they find a good paying job there in their chosen profession? Are there social opportunities for finding mates with matching interests? What are the art and music scenes like? There are a lot more things people think about than cheap housing.
    - Saline9515 1y ago
      There is a reason for the low demand, usually lack of economic activity and infrastructure. It may work if you're a senior IT freelancer, for other trades... less so.
    - aquova 1y ago
LatteLazy 1y ago
Society used to be run for everyone. Now it’s run for the old at the expense of the young. That’s true of politics, economics, media, basically everything.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  It seems inevitable in societies with flat or top heavy population age histograms, especially in a democracy.
  - miningape 1y ago
    It seems inevitable in self-interested societies with flat or top heavy population age histograms, especially in a democracy. Empires grow great when the old plant trees for the shade they'll never sit in.
    - jofla_net 1y ago
      Shit, could you imagine boomers with that mindset. The last time i remember being around old folks with that mentality i was in high school, i swear they did exist though. Lots of wonderful old folks with perspective. I miss them. I'd say if they were still around theyd be well over 100 now.
      - lotsofpulp 1y ago
        I do not think it is fair to compare people’s motivations before the advent of healthcare that could extend their lives for 10+ years to people’s motivations after the advent of healthcare. It is possible both groups of people were just as self-interested, but one did not have the capacity to spend more resources in retirement, simply because they did not have the option to live as long.
        jofla_net 1y ago
        not really, my personal anecdotes were actualy nonagenarians, well-off too.
sQL_inject 1y ago
Save this comment for the future: comparison is the thief of joy, and in our connected world, comparison is inescapable. Young people are berated with constant comparison, whether it be beauty standards, financial success (across generations), or romance. One day we'll study this period and affirm that globalization, hyper addictive media and pornography come with dark sides.
- xeromal 1y ago
  It really does seem as simple as that. I grew up dirt poor in rural appalachia but we were all poor so I didn't care. Really had a good life and it helped shaped my perspective on what matters even though I make good money now.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - bradlys 1y ago
    Weird. I grew up in a similar environment. I didn’t enjoy it at all. Maybe the rampant violent alcoholism and meth just isn’t my thing. Of course, it had other major issues.
    - xeromal 1y ago
      I had a huge family, 100s, and all of us were pretty religious so if anyone was drinking, it was secretly and I never really experienced it. I mostly just experienced hard work, hunting, 4wheeling, and general redneck shit. People were annoyingly religious but that was about the worst of it.
      - bradlys 1y ago
        Yeah, I don't know how much that represents the typical poor rural American life. Certainly doesn't match a lot of the narratives I've seen or heard.
Havoc 1y ago
Well yeah - they're pretty fucked to put it bluntly. The social contract while not entire broken is just broken enough to make things near impossible. Can't afford a house. Can't afford an education. Can't afford a family. Can't even get a proper job anymore (offshoring/gig economy/zero hour contracts) All gets chalked up to laziness / too much avocado toast etc, when the truth is the goal posts have shifted to such an extent that for many scoring a goal is no longer plausible no matter how hard they try. This chart captures it best: [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/e1jrvw/oc_salaries_vs_house_prices_in_uk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/e1jrvw/oc_... I'm sorta on the edge of this (millenial) but man do I have sorry for the younger gen
- preordained 1y ago
  They are utterly cooked. The only ones I've ever seen on the "it's not so bad" side of this argument are aloof boomers and anyone young enough to never have experienced at least a good swath of the 90s--i.e. has no truly visceral basis for comparison/has no clue how bloodless and sick the vampires have left society
incomingpain 1y ago
If you were to go back to 1625, so 400 years ago. What did people do to be happy on your average midweek night? No shakespeare every night. No festival. Just the average night? You went to the local pub, had a good meal, got drunk, and smoked some pipe. But can the modern guy go do that anymore? You cant afford to get drunk, federal alcohol excise tax is $13/litre. LCBO(govt monopoly) markup is 100%, ontario basic alcohol tax is 30-60% retail price. environmental levy is 10-20cents but you can return that to get a refund. You still pay a sales tax of course. You go to the LCBO and $40 for 1Litre but that's >75% taxes. You then reach for the tobacco pipe and they have >90% taxes on tobacco. So what happens? People dont go socialize at the pub anymore. Smoking is uncommon, no smoking socializing. You sit at home alone and shakespeare and chill from your curated streaming choice. How depressing.
- bobxmax 1y ago
  lol and any children you have will likely die horribly before your eyes, good chance you'll die of something terrible like diarrhea or the plague, and whenever you need medical care there's no anesthetic (your wife will LOVE childbirth) oh and you're probably dragged into war at some point, and you eat stale bread once a day. you didn't "have a good meal" at the pub. the lack of perspective priviledged westerners have blows my goddamn mind. and no, people didn't get "happiness" in the past by being in a constant state of alcoholism - they did it because they couldnt' afford clean water modern man isn't happy because they have no resilience and are deeply entitled. that's why you have more than any of your ancestors could have dreamed of but you think you're opressed and struggling sorry but it's pathetic
- matwood 1y ago
  I hope this is parody. The average life expectancy was 35-40. The average person was working 12 hours/day with much of it being heavy labor. No one was going to the pub or having a good meal, they were just trying to survive. I don't understand this romanticization of the past. Does everyone just assume they would be the king? Even then, they would still be worse off than nearly everyone in a modern economy today.
  - 1y ago
swatcoder 1y ago
To be happy, most people need a map to where happiness lies and a sense that they're in the right place on that map. Insomuch as the only map most people now have points towards upper middle class consumerism, with a big house of their own, a well-stamped passport, and an enjoyable career that isn't too pressured, of course most people are going to be unhappy. If we ever might pave a wide highway to that as a society, we're centuries away from doing so, not years. It's not a good map for current generations. Without sacrificing the positives of secularism and liberal ideals of mutual respect and equal opportunity, we urgently need to figure out a new way to give people more reasonable maps about where they can find happiness without the consumer luxuries they'll probably not be able to have.
- monkeyelite 1y ago
  [flagged]
- monkeyelite 1y ago
  Mods, do you know why my reply here was removed? Is there anything I can do better there?

44 points by marojejian 1y ago

marojejian 1y ago

archiv: https://archive.is/Lf3Iw https://archive.is/Lf3Iw

FirmwareBurner 1y ago

Probably because they grew up and started having to pay bills and taxes.

bigyabai 1y ago
[flagged]
ArnoVW 1y ago
I think that with “as they used to” they mean “as other young people of the same age before them” and not “now that they have grown up”
koakuma-chan 1y ago
It's not about money, it's about the lack of hope.
Apocryphon 1y ago
How do they do that in the EU, with the youth unemployment rates? https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemploymen...
- trollbridge 1y ago
  They're having the exact same malaise we're having in North America and ANZ.

mtalantikite 1y ago

Well that's what happens when everything is 2x as expensive as it used to be.

testfrequency 1y ago
Millennials have been complaining about this for a while now and we’ve been called lazy. Now it’s Gen Z being lazy. Crazy how every generation that didn’t get a fair opportunity to live a relatively normal life off normal income is considered “lazy” by the superiors
- marcusb 1y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4IjTUxZORE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4IjTUxZORE (2013)
alphazard 1y ago
Young people have most or all of their net worth in cash because they aren't worth much yet, and you need cash to pay for things. They are also more dependent on their job, which pays them in dollars, because they will run out of money quickly without one. Given all that, it baffles me that young people don't identify the economy and inflation specifically as the most important political issue. They're always complaining about stuff that people tell them to care about, not things that materially affect their ability to sustain themselves.
- btouellette 1y ago
  That would only make sense if they had a lot of net worth which is clearly not the case. If they have $400 in their checking account and a ton of student loans or other debt inflation is actually great for them.

aaroninsf 1y ago

If this were Reddit, it'd qualify for r/noshitsherlock Those holding power today are a generation that never ceded power in the fashion that previous generations did, which directly contributes to the contemporary shitshow of abominable wealth inequity married to the ossified world view, lack of sophistication and comprehension of either contemporary problems nor their solutions, and lack of timeline, characteristic of their ages. While there is no shortage of shrill grifters and abused now abusive collaborators, we are ruled by a bunch of selfish morons and sociopaths in their 70s, many of who are showing active cognitive decline. Why would anyone be happy? This is literally the worst historical moment I have lived and I'm not young myself, and I lived through the Cold War and 9/11. The destruction being wrought in and by the US today is literally incalcuable, a total dismantling of generations of work and careers spent dedicating genius and sweat toward a vision now being shit on openly by those who apparently literally believe they can change reality simply by force-feeding idiocy through entirely owned or coopted media channels on an impoverished fearful populace 24/7. The sooner we see a general strike the better. Which hopefully will result from the entirely predictable absolute economic devastation as tariffs bite. It's January 2020—how are you preparing? Tick tock.

reedf1 1y ago

I can afford a personal burrito taxi - but I rent a tiny one bed for 40% of my salary and starting a family seems out of reach with childcare costs at £3k/mo. The older generations - having landed themselves, became treatlers. Their entire political philosophy is cheap treats. While cheap crap, knick-knacks, fast food and all-inclusive vacations have gotten cheaper; the real meaningful parts of life have drifted out of reach.

PartiallyTyped 1y ago
I currently rent with roommates at 28 and commute 40 minutes, it does feel a bit embarrassing but I get to save a bit. But that is not enough to build any meaningful wealth, 12k over a year is peanuts, it takes over a decade to save 100k good luck buying a house… I am genuinely baffled as to how I could potentially escape this… My only exit is over employment or launching some successful business.
- deadbabe 1y ago
  The escape is to go to parts of the country where home ownership is insanely cheap due to low demand, but people don’t want to do it. Instead they bury their head in the sand and hope their hip urban centers suddenly become affordable.
  - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
    Can they find a good paying job there in their chosen profession? Are there social opportunities for finding mates with matching interests? What are the art and music scenes like? There are a lot more things people think about than cheap housing.
  - Saline9515 1y ago
    There is a reason for the low demand, usually lack of economic activity and infrastructure. It may work if you're a senior IT freelancer, for other trades... less so.
  - aquova 1y ago

LatteLazy 1y ago

Society used to be run for everyone. Now it’s run for the old at the expense of the young. That’s true of politics, economics, media, basically everything.

lotsofpulp 1y ago
It seems inevitable in societies with flat or top heavy population age histograms, especially in a democracy.
- miningape 1y ago
  It seems inevitable in self-interested societies with flat or top heavy population age histograms, especially in a democracy. Empires grow great when the old plant trees for the shade they'll never sit in.
  - jofla_net 1y ago
    Shit, could you imagine boomers with that mindset. The last time i remember being around old folks with that mentality i was in high school, i swear they did exist though. Lots of wonderful old folks with perspective. I miss them. I'd say if they were still around theyd be well over 100 now.
    - lotsofpulp 1y ago
      I do not think it is fair to compare people’s motivations before the advent of healthcare that could extend their lives for 10+ years to people’s motivations after the advent of healthcare. It is possible both groups of people were just as self-interested, but one did not have the capacity to spend more resources in retirement, simply because they did not have the option to live as long.
      - jofla_net 1y ago
        not really, my personal anecdotes were actualy nonagenarians, well-off too.

sQL_inject 1y ago

Save this comment for the future: comparison is the thief of joy, and in our connected world, comparison is inescapable. Young people are berated with constant comparison, whether it be beauty standards, financial success (across generations), or romance. One day we'll study this period and affirm that globalization, hyper addictive media and pornography come with dark sides.

xeromal 1y ago
It really does seem as simple as that. I grew up dirt poor in rural appalachia but we were all poor so I didn't care. Really had a good life and it helped shaped my perspective on what matters even though I make good money now.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- bradlys 1y ago
  Weird. I grew up in a similar environment. I didn’t enjoy it at all. Maybe the rampant violent alcoholism and meth just isn’t my thing. Of course, it had other major issues.
  - xeromal 1y ago
    I had a huge family, 100s, and all of us were pretty religious so if anyone was drinking, it was secretly and I never really experienced it. I mostly just experienced hard work, hunting, 4wheeling, and general redneck shit. People were annoyingly religious but that was about the worst of it.
    - bradlys 1y ago
      Yeah, I don't know how much that represents the typical poor rural American life. Certainly doesn't match a lot of the narratives I've seen or heard.

Havoc 1y ago

Well yeah - they're pretty fucked to put it bluntly. The social contract while not entire broken is just broken enough to make things near impossible. Can't afford a house. Can't afford an education. Can't afford a family. Can't even get a proper job anymore (offshoring/gig economy/zero hour contracts) All gets chalked up to laziness / too much avocado toast etc, when the truth is the goal posts have shifted to such an extent that for many scoring a goal is no longer plausible no matter how hard they try. This chart captures it best: [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/e1jrvw/oc_salaries_vs_house_prices_in_uk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/e1jrvw/oc_... I'm sorta on the edge of this (millenial) but man do I have sorry for the younger gen

preordained 1y ago
They are utterly cooked. The only ones I've ever seen on the "it's not so bad" side of this argument are aloof boomers and anyone young enough to never have experienced at least a good swath of the 90s--i.e. has no truly visceral basis for comparison/has no clue how bloodless and sick the vampires have left society

incomingpain 1y ago

If you were to go back to 1625, so 400 years ago. What did people do to be happy on your average midweek night? No shakespeare every night. No festival. Just the average night? You went to the local pub, had a good meal, got drunk, and smoked some pipe. But can the modern guy go do that anymore? You cant afford to get drunk, federal alcohol excise tax is $13/litre. LCBO(govt monopoly) markup is 100%, ontario basic alcohol tax is 30-60% retail price. environmental levy is 10-20cents but you can return that to get a refund. You still pay a sales tax of course. You go to the LCBO and $40 for 1Litre but that's >75% taxes. You then reach for the tobacco pipe and they have >90% taxes on tobacco. So what happens? People dont go socialize at the pub anymore. Smoking is uncommon, no smoking socializing. You sit at home alone and shakespeare and chill from your curated streaming choice. How depressing.

bobxmax 1y ago
lol and any children you have will likely die horribly before your eyes, good chance you'll die of something terrible like diarrhea or the plague, and whenever you need medical care there's no anesthetic (your wife will LOVE childbirth) oh and you're probably dragged into war at some point, and you eat stale bread once a day. you didn't "have a good meal" at the pub. the lack of perspective priviledged westerners have blows my goddamn mind. and no, people didn't get "happiness" in the past by being in a constant state of alcoholism - they did it because they couldnt' afford clean water modern man isn't happy because they have no resilience and are deeply entitled. that's why you have more than any of your ancestors could have dreamed of but you think you're opressed and struggling sorry but it's pathetic
matwood 1y ago
I hope this is parody. The average life expectancy was 35-40. The average person was working 12 hours/day with much of it being heavy labor. No one was going to the pub or having a good meal, they were just trying to survive. I don't understand this romanticization of the past. Does everyone just assume they would be the king? Even then, they would still be worse off than nearly everyone in a modern economy today.
- 1y ago

swatcoder 1y ago

To be happy, most people need a map to where happiness lies and a sense that they're in the right place on that map. Insomuch as the only map most people now have points towards upper middle class consumerism, with a big house of their own, a well-stamped passport, and an enjoyable career that isn't too pressured, of course most people are going to be unhappy. If we ever might pave a wide highway to that as a society, we're centuries away from doing so, not years. It's not a good map for current generations. Without sacrificing the positives of secularism and liberal ideals of mutual respect and equal opportunity, we urgently need to figure out a new way to give people more reasonable maps about where they can find happiness without the consumer luxuries they'll probably not be able to have.

monkeyelite 1y ago
[flagged]
monkeyelite 1y ago
Mods, do you know why my reply here was removed? Is there anything I can do better there?