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I generally agree with everything you're positing here, except for this… > the top cause of margin pressure for hospitals is labor While it's true that the hi

I generally agree with everything you're positing here, except for this… > the top cause of margin pressure for hospitals is labor While it's true that the highest cost to hospitals is labor, the highest cost to consumers is insurance company bureaucracy.

jf22 1y ago
Is it? I know insurance bureaucracy has overhead but is it more than personnel or materials?
energy123 1y ago
Is it? https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-...
jimbokun 1y ago
What is the dollar amount for each component?
Workaccount2 1y ago
Any casual glance at the finances of a health insurance company will quickly throw cold water on the "health insurance companies are greedy scamming dirt bags" Then go look at the finances of those who take in insurance money. Trust me, it's _very_ (read: very) clear who holds all the bargaining power in the healthcare market. People target their anger at insurance companies because that is who they pay. "My healthcare provider is good and my health insurance is evil" is exactly backwards. You are not the one paying $400 for your "I have a head cold" virtual visit.
- bigyabai 1y ago
  > You are not the one paying $400 for your "I have a head cold" virtual visit. Provided you pay for your insurance, in all likelihood you already have.
_bin_ 1y ago
The data don't bear this out. Insurance companies do represent some level of inefficiency and are easy scapegoats, but saying this only prevents people from better identifying and fixing actual cost centers. Here's a good breakdown of contributions to total national health expenditures by type in 2023: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe... You'll notice that hospitals are the largest component. Physicans and clinics are also substantial. Insurance costs fall under "Other health", which includes "spending on durable and non-durable products; residential and personal care; administration; net health insurance; and other state, private, and federal expenditures." Drug costs, the other frequent alleged cause, are even smaller, representing less than a tenth of expenditures.
- Tallain 1y ago
  If you go to the source of the data linked there -- cms.gov -- you'll see that this is only one side of the equation: health spending by product. This explicitly does not include insurance costs. Private health insurance costs are covered by "healthcare spending by major sources of funds" and reached 1.5 trillion, the same dollar amount as hospitals cost as a product group. https://www.cms.gov/files/document/highlights.pdf https://www.cms.gov/files/document/highlights.pdf
  - _bin_ 1y ago
    That is the dollars spent for insurance plans. Those dollars then reappear in the product spending figures, less some amount of overhead and margin for insurance. Those additional data you provided don't say anything more about exactly what that is, nor do they imply the total overhead and margin of health insurance is $1.5T.

jf22 1y ago

Is it? I know insurance bureaucracy has overhead but is it more than personnel or materials?

energy123 1y ago

Is it? https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-...

jimbokun 1y ago

What is the dollar amount for each component?

Workaccount2 1y ago

Any casual glance at the finances of a health insurance company will quickly throw cold water on the "health insurance companies are greedy scamming dirt bags" Then go look at the finances of those who take in insurance money. Trust me, it's _very_ (read: very) clear who holds all the bargaining power in the healthcare market. People target their anger at insurance companies because that is who they pay. "My healthcare provider is good and my health insurance is evil" is exactly backwards. You are not the one paying $400 for your "I have a head cold" virtual visit.

bigyabai 1y ago
> You are not the one paying $400 for your "I have a head cold" virtual visit. Provided you pay for your insurance, in all likelihood you already have.

_bin_ 1y ago

The data don't bear this out. Insurance companies do represent some level of inefficiency and are easy scapegoats, but saying this only prevents people from better identifying and fixing actual cost centers. Here's a good breakdown of contributions to total national health expenditures by type in 2023: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe... You'll notice that hospitals are the largest component. Physicans and clinics are also substantial. Insurance costs fall under "Other health", which includes "spending on durable and non-durable products; residential and personal care; administration; net health insurance; and other state, private, and federal expenditures." Drug costs, the other frequent alleged cause, are even smaller, representing less than a tenth of expenditures.

Tallain 1y ago
If you go to the source of the data linked there -- cms.gov -- you'll see that this is only one side of the equation: health spending by product. This explicitly does not include insurance costs. Private health insurance costs are covered by "healthcare spending by major sources of funds" and reached 1.5 trillion, the same dollar amount as hospitals cost as a product group. https://www.cms.gov/files/document/highlights.pdf https://www.cms.gov/files/document/highlights.pdf
- _bin_ 1y ago
  That is the dollars spent for insurance plans. Those dollars then reappear in the product spending figures, less some amount of overhead and margin for insurance. Those additional data you provided don't say anything more about exactly what that is, nor do they imply the total overhead and margin of health insurance is $1.5T.