8 ms·

Statewide fluoride ban for tap water passes in Florida

43 points by geox 2y ago

peterpost2 2y ago
[flagged]
- IAmBroom 2y ago
  [flagged]
- vault 2y ago
  I don't think this is, among the recent posts about US, the one for which you should have such a reaction... but maybe I'm missing something important here.
  - tonetheman 2y ago
    [dead]
- Loughla 2y ago
  Do European countries use fluoride in their water? While I agree that it's a shit show right now in the US, this article maybe isn't the leading edge of that.
  - dagw 2y ago
    Do European countries use fluoride in their water? Varies a lot from country to country, but over all it is done to a much lower degree than in the US. However the big difference is that there isn't a ban on it. There are scientific guidelines published by the EU and then it is up to each country/state to decide if they want to add it or not based on local considerations.
  - stop50 2y ago
    In Germany: no The toothpaste has already enough fluoride and the healthcare system isn't completly broken.
Etheryte 2y ago
Before you jump to reactions, remember that there isn't consensus worldwide on what the best approach to this is. For example most countries in the EU also don't fluorinate water, but it's instead in toothpaste or table salt or etc.
- IAmBroom 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - messe 2y ago
    > There isn't a worldwide consensus on genital mutilation and slavery Oh come the fuck on. There's a pretty fucking large gap between water fluoridation and both of those.
    - gwervc 2y ago
      Yes but one of them is still performed at large scale in the US despite all common sense and scientific knowledge.
      - jcranmer 2y ago
        This bill is likely based on the same sort of scientific knowledge that leads people to recommend drinking raw milk. The litmus test to use is if it is banning fluoridation, or if it is reducing the maximum allowable amount of fluoride in the water to something below 0.75 mg/L (the current EPA limit is 4 mg/L). I haven't been able to find the bill text here, but I am virtually certain that it's the former case, which tells me that they're not actually motivated by the supposed harms of fluoride in the >0.75 mg/L range.
      - treetalker 2y ago
        It (circumcision) also pretty clearly unconstitutional and otherwise unlawful. Yahweh and Allah sadly didn't mandate fluoridation when revealing their will for mankind through their prophets. But somehow genital mutilation survives in the US in no small part because of religion.
glimshe 2y ago
If I was a dentist, I'd be moving to Florida...
codedokode 2y ago
[flagged]
- paulcole 2y ago
  That’s right. My grandma won’t get on a plane because being strapped into a metal tube going 500mph at 35,000 feet in the sky sounds scary.
- jcranmer 2y ago
  The chief chemical added to tap water is chlorine, to kill off all of the organisms that live in the water. Clostridium difficile isn't exactly something you want to get with your drinking water, unless you really, really love your diarrhea.
  - nancyminusone 2y ago
    After a few years on a well, it becomes clear how much chlorine. Opening a tap on tap water smells like a swimming pool. You can smell it clear across the room. Not that it means it's unsafe to drink
    - orwin 2y ago
      Not unsafe, but still, if your water smell chlorine, you should let it rest a bit before drinking it.
- dagw 2y ago
  Drinking tap water without chemicals added to them sounds a lot more scary.
- mcphage 2y ago
  It’s a good thing that water isn’t a chemical.
- izzydata 2y ago
  Everything is chemicals.
os2warpman 2y ago
"Forced medication" I assure you that they'll be banning iodine in salt and vitamin d in milk next.
- conover 2y ago
  To play devil’s advocate, salt and milk aren’t pumped into your house by the government. You can also buy iodine-free salt and vitamin d-free milk if you choose.
  - roxolotl 2y ago
    You can buy bottled water, or a filter and many people have wells.
    - amazingamazing 2y ago
      the default should be no additions, no?
      - UncleMeat 2y ago
        The default for salt and milk isn't no additions.
        amazingamazing 2y ago
        salt and milk don't come out of your tap, though. would you agree with governments building giant towers everywhere resulting in humidifying the air with chemically infused mists (which are said to be beneficial)? after all, if you prefer the current air, you can wear a breathing mask attached to a tank with your air of choice. it's crazy to me that people can see what harm the government can do in 2025 and still think the government knows best.
        roxolotl 2y ago
        It's not about thinking the government knows best it's about thinking the research knows best. Fluoride in water is widely considered one of the largest public health victories and study after study finds it largely safe and worth the potential trade offs. The thing that's so wild about being anti fluoride is it's been going on for so long, it's possible your grandparents have never drank unfluoridated water at least in their adult lives, and at such scale that even if everything was a coordinated lie there would be very clear numbers showing problems.
delichon 2y ago
Put another way, Florida supports the right of informed consent with regard to fluoride treatment. As a thyroid cancer survivor I decline that treatment due to fluoride competing with iodine for receptors and causing goiters and tumors as a result. The only reason I can decline is that I'm using well water rather than a public system. Now people in Florida can all choose. I'm pro choice on abortion too for the same reason: Your body your choice.
- iluvcommunism 2y ago
  [dead]
- hnthrow90348765 2y ago
  What are the options for adding fluoride back to water for a home?
  - amazingamazing 2y ago
    why would you want this? brush your teeth or swish with high concentration fluoride mouthwash. there's actually no benefit of ingesting fluoridated water. any benefit is simply incidental since it must touch your teeth down the hatch. don't take my word for it - go read the papers yourself, they all say as much. Or to put it another way, would pumping fluoride to your stomach help your teeth? I hope you know the answer. literally every toothpaste in the united states explicitly says to spit, not swallow. there's a reason for that.
    - hnthrow90348765 2y ago
      Narrarator: "There wasn't a choice after all"
    - status_quo69 2y ago
      https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2925001/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2925001/ Not everyone has impeccable brushing habits and reducing cavities is a net benefit to public health like sanitation departments. I would be more interested to see a source as to why you think there's no benefit to fluorinated water when there are studies that are a quick search away for fluorinated water.
jemmyw 2y ago
Adding fluoride to water is a strange topic people get very worked up about. The levels of added fluoride are very low, it's been well studied at this point. Some places in the world need to filter out naturally occurring fluoride, which is one of the reasons that not everywhere adds it. In NZ we appear to be moving in the opposite direction where central govt is now going to mandate the addition of fluoride where it was previously a local decision.
- cempaka 2y ago
  The recent NIH meta-study indicated there may be neurotoxic effects at concentrations within an order of magnitude of the recommended drinking water level (perhaps even at just 2x the recommendation), I wouldn't call that "very low". https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6923889/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6923889/
  - kelipso 2y ago
    I love the responses of people on the left on this issue. Can’t wait for the eventual group amnesia when the scientific consensus changes.
    - cempaka 2y ago
      I actually consider myself "on the left," but find their turn to a sort of scientistic blind trust of anything remotely billed as "public health" during COVID to have been disastrous.
      - kelipso 2y ago
        I thought I was on the left but there’s no way I want to be associated with people who have such blind trust in institutions and have such pride in their lack of critical thinking.
  - derbOac 2y ago
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033350623000938 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003335062... The best research I've seen on this, from NZ, suggests the neurocognitive effect in typical fluoridation programs is about as close to zero as you can get. I admit I think people were stigmatized for raising concerns about it before, and find it sort of weird it was added without more safety data, but by the same token I think the most rigorous evidence suggests its pretty safe at the typical concentrations of most fluoridation programs.
amazingamazing 2y ago
repeat after me: topical fluoride application on the teeth is better than drinking fluoridated water. we're in a post truth era where literal fact is downvoted lol.
ifyoubuildit 2y ago
The reflexive, shallow negativity in these comment sections surprises me. There are legitimately bad things happening. Your complaints about those things become diluted when you complain about things like this (or looking for environmental causes of autism, or shutting down demonstrably wasteful programs). Sometimes the liberal side of these discussions can be so conservative.
esbranson 2y ago
Poor people don't drink tap water, due to lack of trust in the media among others.[1] The comments here that insinuate otherwise is also an effect of that same media,[2] on the same spectrum that led them to support school closures. This whole topic is just a symptom of a more general disease. Defund CPB (and hence PBS and NPR) before we lose any more to this idiocy. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7474465/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7474465/ [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2000/05/26/us/epidemic-of-oral-disease-is-found-in-poor.html https://www.nytimes.com/2000/05/26/us/epidemic-of-oral-disea...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

43 points by geox 2y ago

peterpost2 2y ago

[flagged]

IAmBroom 2y ago
[flagged]
vault 2y ago
I don't think this is, among the recent posts about US, the one for which you should have such a reaction... but maybe I'm missing something important here.
- tonetheman 2y ago
  [dead]
Loughla 2y ago
Do European countries use fluoride in their water? While I agree that it's a shit show right now in the US, this article maybe isn't the leading edge of that.
- dagw 2y ago
  Do European countries use fluoride in their water? Varies a lot from country to country, but over all it is done to a much lower degree than in the US. However the big difference is that there isn't a ban on it. There are scientific guidelines published by the EU and then it is up to each country/state to decide if they want to add it or not based on local considerations.
- stop50 2y ago
  In Germany: no The toothpaste has already enough fluoride and the healthcare system isn't completly broken.

Etheryte 2y ago

Before you jump to reactions, remember that there isn't consensus worldwide on what the best approach to this is. For example most countries in the EU also don't fluorinate water, but it's instead in toothpaste or table salt or etc.

IAmBroom 2y ago
[flagged]
- messe 2y ago
  > There isn't a worldwide consensus on genital mutilation and slavery Oh come the fuck on. There's a pretty fucking large gap between water fluoridation and both of those.
  - gwervc 2y ago
    Yes but one of them is still performed at large scale in the US despite all common sense and scientific knowledge.
    - jcranmer 2y ago
      This bill is likely based on the same sort of scientific knowledge that leads people to recommend drinking raw milk. The litmus test to use is if it is banning fluoridation, or if it is reducing the maximum allowable amount of fluoride in the water to something below 0.75 mg/L (the current EPA limit is 4 mg/L). I haven't been able to find the bill text here, but I am virtually certain that it's the former case, which tells me that they're not actually motivated by the supposed harms of fluoride in the >0.75 mg/L range.
    - treetalker 2y ago
      It (circumcision) also pretty clearly unconstitutional and otherwise unlawful. Yahweh and Allah sadly didn't mandate fluoridation when revealing their will for mankind through their prophets. But somehow genital mutilation survives in the US in no small part because of religion.

glimshe 2y ago

If I was a dentist, I'd be moving to Florida...

codedokode 2y ago

[flagged]

paulcole 2y ago
That’s right. My grandma won’t get on a plane because being strapped into a metal tube going 500mph at 35,000 feet in the sky sounds scary.
jcranmer 2y ago
The chief chemical added to tap water is chlorine, to kill off all of the organisms that live in the water. Clostridium difficile isn't exactly something you want to get with your drinking water, unless you really, really love your diarrhea.
- nancyminusone 2y ago
  After a few years on a well, it becomes clear how much chlorine. Opening a tap on tap water smells like a swimming pool. You can smell it clear across the room. Not that it means it's unsafe to drink
  - orwin 2y ago
    Not unsafe, but still, if your water smell chlorine, you should let it rest a bit before drinking it.
dagw 2y ago
Drinking tap water without chemicals added to them sounds a lot more scary.
mcphage 2y ago
It’s a good thing that water isn’t a chemical.
izzydata 2y ago
Everything is chemicals.

os2warpman 2y ago

"Forced medication" I assure you that they'll be banning iodine in salt and vitamin d in milk next.

conover 2y ago
To play devil’s advocate, salt and milk aren’t pumped into your house by the government. You can also buy iodine-free salt and vitamin d-free milk if you choose.
- roxolotl 2y ago
  You can buy bottled water, or a filter and many people have wells.
  - amazingamazing 2y ago
    the default should be no additions, no?
    - UncleMeat 2y ago
      The default for salt and milk isn't no additions.
      - amazingamazing 2y ago
        salt and milk don't come out of your tap, though. would you agree with governments building giant towers everywhere resulting in humidifying the air with chemically infused mists (which are said to be beneficial)? after all, if you prefer the current air, you can wear a breathing mask attached to a tank with your air of choice. it's crazy to me that people can see what harm the government can do in 2025 and still think the government knows best.
        roxolotl 2y ago
        It's not about thinking the government knows best it's about thinking the research knows best. Fluoride in water is widely considered one of the largest public health victories and study after study finds it largely safe and worth the potential trade offs. The thing that's so wild about being anti fluoride is it's been going on for so long, it's possible your grandparents have never drank unfluoridated water at least in their adult lives, and at such scale that even if everything was a coordinated lie there would be very clear numbers showing problems.

delichon 2y ago

Put another way, Florida supports the right of informed consent with regard to fluoride treatment. As a thyroid cancer survivor I decline that treatment due to fluoride competing with iodine for receptors and causing goiters and tumors as a result. The only reason I can decline is that I'm using well water rather than a public system. Now people in Florida can all choose. I'm pro choice on abortion too for the same reason: Your body your choice.

iluvcommunism 2y ago
[dead]
hnthrow90348765 2y ago
What are the options for adding fluoride back to water for a home?
- amazingamazing 2y ago
  why would you want this? brush your teeth or swish with high concentration fluoride mouthwash. there's actually no benefit of ingesting fluoridated water. any benefit is simply incidental since it must touch your teeth down the hatch. don't take my word for it - go read the papers yourself, they all say as much. Or to put it another way, would pumping fluoride to your stomach help your teeth? I hope you know the answer. literally every toothpaste in the united states explicitly says to spit, not swallow. there's a reason for that.
  - hnthrow90348765 2y ago
    Narrarator: "There wasn't a choice after all"
  - status_quo69 2y ago
    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2925001/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2925001/ Not everyone has impeccable brushing habits and reducing cavities is a net benefit to public health like sanitation departments. I would be more interested to see a source as to why you think there's no benefit to fluorinated water when there are studies that are a quick search away for fluorinated water.

jemmyw 2y ago

Adding fluoride to water is a strange topic people get very worked up about. The levels of added fluoride are very low, it's been well studied at this point. Some places in the world need to filter out naturally occurring fluoride, which is one of the reasons that not everywhere adds it. In NZ we appear to be moving in the opposite direction where central govt is now going to mandate the addition of fluoride where it was previously a local decision.

cempaka 2y ago
The recent NIH meta-study indicated there may be neurotoxic effects at concentrations within an order of magnitude of the recommended drinking water level (perhaps even at just 2x the recommendation), I wouldn't call that "very low". https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6923889/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6923889/
- kelipso 2y ago
  I love the responses of people on the left on this issue. Can’t wait for the eventual group amnesia when the scientific consensus changes.
  - cempaka 2y ago
    I actually consider myself "on the left," but find their turn to a sort of scientistic blind trust of anything remotely billed as "public health" during COVID to have been disastrous.
    - kelipso 2y ago
      I thought I was on the left but there’s no way I want to be associated with people who have such blind trust in institutions and have such pride in their lack of critical thinking.
- derbOac 2y ago
  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033350623000938 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S003335062... The best research I've seen on this, from NZ, suggests the neurocognitive effect in typical fluoridation programs is about as close to zero as you can get. I admit I think people were stigmatized for raising concerns about it before, and find it sort of weird it was added without more safety data, but by the same token I think the most rigorous evidence suggests its pretty safe at the typical concentrations of most fluoridation programs.

amazingamazing 2y ago

repeat after me: topical fluoride application on the teeth is better than drinking fluoridated water. we're in a post truth era where literal fact is downvoted lol.

ifyoubuildit 2y ago

The reflexive, shallow negativity in these comment sections surprises me. There are legitimately bad things happening. Your complaints about those things become diluted when you complain about things like this (or looking for environmental causes of autism, or shutting down demonstrably wasteful programs). Sometimes the liberal side of these discussions can be so conservative.

esbranson 2y ago

Poor people don't drink tap water, due to lack of trust in the media among others.[1] The comments here that insinuate otherwise is also an effect of that same media,[2] on the same spectrum that led them to support school closures. This whole topic is just a symptom of a more general disease. Defund CPB (and hence PBS and NPR) before we lose any more to this idiocy. [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7474465/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7474465/ [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2000/05/26/us/epidemic-of-oral-disease-is-found-in-poor.html https://www.nytimes.com/2000/05/26/us/epidemic-of-oral-disea...

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]