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Basically every big tech company engages in much worse forms of government manipulation. At least this one aligns with citizen interests. IMO, if gov manipulat

Basically every big tech company engages in much worse forms of government manipulation. At least this one aligns with citizen interests. IMO, if gov manipulation benefits citizens; e.g. creates meaningful jobs or opportunities for citizens, then it's not corruption. The difference is night and day. Where was the outrage over massive government contracts handed out to Oracle, Microsoft, etc... under previous administration? What about all corporate tax breaks? These are purely self-serving and the magnitude of the harm done to citizens is far more significant. It's dishonest to turn a blind eye to those and to focus on trivial policies which actually work in the interest of citizens. Here, the benefit to Tesla is just a side effect.

CoastalCoder 1y ago
I'd argue that keeping Musk wealthy is contrary to the interests of most Americans.
- jongjong 1y ago
  I disagree. I agree that the system shouldn't be creating so many billionaires. It's a flaw in the system. But Musk is among the best of them IMO and his contrarian position makes him essential, even if you disagree with him and his politics. There needs to be opposing forces among the elite or else we're sure to walk down the path of totalitarianism. I generally agree with Musk's politics but I wouldn't want all billionaires to share his politics because that would be dangerous. Unfortunately those on the left do not seem to understand this; they keep trying to force total consensus. Which is the biggest evil, total consensus is more evil than any idea you could come up with. Most ideologies are distractions to get people upset over specific unimportant ideas so that they don't get upset over the massive evil, creeping ideology; the ideology of "total consensus over important ideas." Full consensus is evil incarnate, no matter the specifics. Its stickiness; inability to adapt to reality is what makes it evil. Without opposition, there is no room for independent thought.
  - sriram_malhar 1y ago
    I generally agree with Musk's politics You mean fascism? Absolute control over media and speech? Racism? White supremacy? And what is your definition of consensus? If everyone strikes a compromise, is that evil ? If majority strike a consensus, is that not consensus; that is, does it have to be total in order to be called consensus? Is majority a consensus? Of course people agitate for getting full victory
  - dryrun 1y ago
    So if a full consensus says that Nazis are bad, then they are themselves bad, not the Nazis ? And if Musk is the best of the billionaires, that says an awful lot about the others, which paints a very, very hideous world that I definitely don't want a consensus on. The guy paves the way towards totalitarianism, but please, tell me about we should have people like him because it prevents totalitarianism.
  - davidw 1y ago
    > I generally agree with Musk's politics Children are dying in Africa as a direct result of his actions right now. https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/04/14/g-s1-59863/hiv-aids-drugs-usaid-zambia https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/04/14/g-s1-...
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - fallingknife 1y ago
      Where are all the other concerned countries stepping in to help since the US has left? Why is the US the only country that is considered responsible for the problems of foreign countries while every other country is given the luxury of focusing only on their domestic affairs?
      - jenadine 1y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_agencies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_agenci... US is clearly not the only country. I guess other aid agencies are already busy with their existing programs and can't easily step in when the country with the biggest GDP stop suddenly. Edit: See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_sovereign_state_donors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_sovere...
- WalterBright 1y ago
  > I'd argue that keeping Musk wealthy is contrary to the interests of most Americans. His wealth is what enabled SpaceX to exist. Musk's Neuralink now has enabled a paralized man who could not communicate to operate a computer with his mind and thereby communicate with the world.
  - KingMob 1y ago
    And the evidence that SpaceX is in the interest of American citizens is...? Neuralink existed for years before Musk. If it weren't him, the researchers would have continued with other investors or govt grants (Trump gutting the NIH recently notwithstanding). Compare this paltry evidence of benefit with the massive damage being done by the Musk-directed DOGE group, and it's clear billionaires being able to use their money to buy influence over govt is a net negative for US citizens.
    - WalterBright 1y ago
      > And the evidence that SpaceX is in the interest of American citizens is...? Starlink. The one that connected the N Carolina hurricane victims when FEMA failed, and then again in Los Angeles. NASA can now launch missions at 10% of the cost, due to SpaceX. > Neuralink existed for years before Musk. According to Google: "Neuralink, an invasive BCI company with a short-term goal of treating various neurological disorders such as quadriplegia, was founded by Elon Musk in 2016 with the intention of creating another “layer” to the brain to complement the functions of existing layers like the limbic system and the cortex." It's now working on restoring sight to the blind. What a monster Musk is! BTW, the value of his companies is what investors value it at. Surely they think they are worth it.
      - mlrtime 1y ago
        There is nothing to be gained of defending Musks's positive contributions. These people are so locked into their mindset.
        camel_Snake 1y ago
potamic 1y ago
Just a point on terminology, the term manipulation almost always has a negative connotation. You wouldn't use it to mean otherwise.

CoastalCoder 1y ago

I'd argue that keeping Musk wealthy is contrary to the interests of most Americans.

jongjong 1y ago
I disagree. I agree that the system shouldn't be creating so many billionaires. It's a flaw in the system. But Musk is among the best of them IMO and his contrarian position makes him essential, even if you disagree with him and his politics. There needs to be opposing forces among the elite or else we're sure to walk down the path of totalitarianism. I generally agree with Musk's politics but I wouldn't want all billionaires to share his politics because that would be dangerous. Unfortunately those on the left do not seem to understand this; they keep trying to force total consensus. Which is the biggest evil, total consensus is more evil than any idea you could come up with. Most ideologies are distractions to get people upset over specific unimportant ideas so that they don't get upset over the massive evil, creeping ideology; the ideology of "total consensus over important ideas." Full consensus is evil incarnate, no matter the specifics. Its stickiness; inability to adapt to reality is what makes it evil. Without opposition, there is no room for independent thought.
- sriram_malhar 1y ago
  I generally agree with Musk's politics You mean fascism? Absolute control over media and speech? Racism? White supremacy? And what is your definition of consensus? If everyone strikes a compromise, is that evil ? If majority strike a consensus, is that not consensus; that is, does it have to be total in order to be called consensus? Is majority a consensus? Of course people agitate for getting full victory
- dryrun 1y ago
  So if a full consensus says that Nazis are bad, then they are themselves bad, not the Nazis ? And if Musk is the best of the billionaires, that says an awful lot about the others, which paints a very, very hideous world that I definitely don't want a consensus on. The guy paves the way towards totalitarianism, but please, tell me about we should have people like him because it prevents totalitarianism.
- davidw 1y ago
  > I generally agree with Musk's politics Children are dying in Africa as a direct result of his actions right now. https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/04/14/g-s1-59863/hiv-aids-drugs-usaid-zambia https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/04/14/g-s1-...
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - fallingknife 1y ago
    Where are all the other concerned countries stepping in to help since the US has left? Why is the US the only country that is considered responsible for the problems of foreign countries while every other country is given the luxury of focusing only on their domestic affairs?
    - jenadine 1y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_agencies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_agenci... US is clearly not the only country. I guess other aid agencies are already busy with their existing programs and can't easily step in when the country with the biggest GDP stop suddenly. Edit: See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_sovereign_state_donors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_sovere...
WalterBright 1y ago
> I'd argue that keeping Musk wealthy is contrary to the interests of most Americans. His wealth is what enabled SpaceX to exist. Musk's Neuralink now has enabled a paralized man who could not communicate to operate a computer with his mind and thereby communicate with the world.
- KingMob 1y ago
  And the evidence that SpaceX is in the interest of American citizens is...? Neuralink existed for years before Musk. If it weren't him, the researchers would have continued with other investors or govt grants (Trump gutting the NIH recently notwithstanding). Compare this paltry evidence of benefit with the massive damage being done by the Musk-directed DOGE group, and it's clear billionaires being able to use their money to buy influence over govt is a net negative for US citizens.
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    > And the evidence that SpaceX is in the interest of American citizens is...? Starlink. The one that connected the N Carolina hurricane victims when FEMA failed, and then again in Los Angeles. NASA can now launch missions at 10% of the cost, due to SpaceX. > Neuralink existed for years before Musk. According to Google: "Neuralink, an invasive BCI company with a short-term goal of treating various neurological disorders such as quadriplegia, was founded by Elon Musk in 2016 with the intention of creating another “layer” to the brain to complement the functions of existing layers like the limbic system and the cortex." It's now working on restoring sight to the blind. What a monster Musk is! BTW, the value of his companies is what investors value it at. Surely they think they are worth it.
    - mlrtime 1y ago
      There is nothing to be gained of defending Musks's positive contributions. These people are so locked into their mindset.
      - camel_Snake 1y ago

potamic 1y ago

Just a point on terminology, the term manipulation almost always has a negative connotation. You wouldn't use it to mean otherwise.