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Watch out - I got the email offering a new 30 day free trial, and at the end of the month they did nothing to inform me and started charging the credit card the

by jrmg 1y ago

Watch out - I got the email offering a new 30 day free trial, and at the end of the month they did nothing to inform me and started charging the credit card they apparently still had on file from when I subscribed for a month or two a few years ago. I guess with other companies I would’ve expected something like that and monitored the time more closely, but with Kagi I expected better - especially since the email offering the new free trial promised “A month on us”, and said “Click here to activate your trial, no strings attached”.

neogodless 1y ago
I will keep an eye on it, but I am 99.9% sure I've never paid them anything or given them any payment information! (I don't trust my brain as much as I did when I was younger, so perhaps I'm forgetting something. But I don't think so!)
packetlost 1y ago
That's weird because Kagi is one of the few subscriptions that gives me an email heads up days before they charge me during the normal monthly cycle.
- kristofferR 1y ago
  I'm not sure if it's a Norwegian law or an EU law, but companies here are forced to regularly send reminders that you are subscribed to them, I've gotten them from all the major streaming services I've subscribed to.
  - amelius 1y ago
    Huh, Norway is not in the EU.
    - joseda-hg 1y ago
      They are part of the European Economic Area, which means they belong to the EU market and their regulations (without voting rights), but they get to keep controlling their fisheries So, in this context, they might as well be
      - timc3 1y ago
        They have access to the EU market through the EEA but do not abide to 100% of the EU rules, regulations or laws. And they can have their own rules/regulations/laws.
  - packetlost 1y ago
    We lack such strong consumer protection laws in the US, so I'm pleasantly surprised when something so basic like this happens.
Terretta 1y ago
On the contrary, they are the rare SaaS that proactively avoids charging you any period you don't use it.
deng 1y ago
Interesting, because I brought this exact thing up last time Kagi was mentioned here, and the founder and billing engineer assured me that it does NOT convert to a subscription: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43308930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43308930
- seth_at_kagi 1y ago
  Hey, As I mentioned in my previous comment, it does not convert IF you do not have a payment method set. In this instance they already had one set which Stripe takes as 'this user wants to renew' and instead decides to not cancel it. I did mention a workaround we could do, and that's something that we will ensure gets done asap.
  - nottorp 1y ago
    > In this instance they already had one set which Stripe takes as 'this user wants to renew' and instead decides to not cancel it. Is this even legal? Ok, maybe in the US...
seth_at_kagi 1y ago
Hey, Engineer from Kagi here. This is not something we intentionally do here, and is a feature of Stripe to automatically renew at the end of a trial if there is a payment method present. It should have also sent you an email about 7 days before it was going to renew. With that said, I do understand how this may be unexpected. I will look into adding a workaround for this auto-renewal so that we can prevent that in the future for other users. Either way, if you contact support@kagi.com we can give you a full refund.
- realo 1y ago
  That comment from an actual human being, sir, more than anything else, would be by itself a reason for me to switch to Kagi everywhere. Fortunately I already switched to Kagi everywhere...
  - bmacho 1y ago
    Huh? They are scamming someone, > I do understand how this may be unexpected. is the answer, they claim that it is a bug at their partner, and they offer opt-in (not automatic) refund. That's straight up illegal. Also controversial, like, if it's a bug, why isn't the refund automatic in the first place. How does this make you want to be their user?
    - freedomben 1y ago
      Have you ever written software? Especially to manage payments? This is a very plausible bug around a corner case. Maybe they're secretly twirling their evil mustaches figuring out how to scam their previous customers that they're also trying to win back, or maybe sometimes bugs happen.
      - bmacho 1y ago
        Having bugs is okay. That particular reply however is gross and controversial on so many levels. If you have a bug at a partner, you don't claim that it is intended and "I do understand how this may be unexpected". If it affects multiple users, you don't do opt-in refunds (which is again, illegal, and is a scam if intentional). > Maybe they're secretly twirling their evil mustaches figuring out how to scam their previous customers They've just admitted it?

by jrmg 1y ago

neogodless 1y ago

I will keep an eye on it, but I am 99.9% sure I've never paid them anything or given them any payment information! (I don't trust my brain as much as I did when I was younger, so perhaps I'm forgetting something. But I don't think so!)

packetlost 1y ago

That's weird because Kagi is one of the few subscriptions that gives me an email heads up days before they charge me during the normal monthly cycle.

kristofferR 1y ago
I'm not sure if it's a Norwegian law or an EU law, but companies here are forced to regularly send reminders that you are subscribed to them, I've gotten them from all the major streaming services I've subscribed to.
- amelius 1y ago
  Huh, Norway is not in the EU.
  - joseda-hg 1y ago
    They are part of the European Economic Area, which means they belong to the EU market and their regulations (without voting rights), but they get to keep controlling their fisheries So, in this context, they might as well be
    - timc3 1y ago
      They have access to the EU market through the EEA but do not abide to 100% of the EU rules, regulations or laws. And they can have their own rules/regulations/laws.
- packetlost 1y ago
  We lack such strong consumer protection laws in the US, so I'm pleasantly surprised when something so basic like this happens.

Terretta 1y ago

On the contrary, they are the rare SaaS that proactively avoids charging you any period you don't use it.

deng 1y ago

Interesting, because I brought this exact thing up last time Kagi was mentioned here, and the founder and billing engineer assured me that it does NOT convert to a subscription: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43308930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43308930

seth_at_kagi 1y ago
Hey, As I mentioned in my previous comment, it does not convert IF you do not have a payment method set. In this instance they already had one set which Stripe takes as 'this user wants to renew' and instead decides to not cancel it. I did mention a workaround we could do, and that's something that we will ensure gets done asap.
- nottorp 1y ago
  > In this instance they already had one set which Stripe takes as 'this user wants to renew' and instead decides to not cancel it. Is this even legal? Ok, maybe in the US...

seth_at_kagi 1y ago

Hey, Engineer from Kagi here. This is not something we intentionally do here, and is a feature of Stripe to automatically renew at the end of a trial if there is a payment method present. It should have also sent you an email about 7 days before it was going to renew. With that said, I do understand how this may be unexpected. I will look into adding a workaround for this auto-renewal so that we can prevent that in the future for other users. Either way, if you contact support@kagi.com we can give you a full refund.

realo 1y ago
That comment from an actual human being, sir, more than anything else, would be by itself a reason for me to switch to Kagi everywhere. Fortunately I already switched to Kagi everywhere...
- bmacho 1y ago
  Huh? They are scamming someone, > I do understand how this may be unexpected. is the answer, they claim that it is a bug at their partner, and they offer opt-in (not automatic) refund. That's straight up illegal. Also controversial, like, if it's a bug, why isn't the refund automatic in the first place. How does this make you want to be their user?
  - freedomben 1y ago
    Have you ever written software? Especially to manage payments? This is a very plausible bug around a corner case. Maybe they're secretly twirling their evil mustaches figuring out how to scam their previous customers that they're also trying to win back, or maybe sometimes bugs happen.
    - bmacho 1y ago
      Having bugs is okay. That particular reply however is gross and controversial on so many levels. If you have a bug at a partner, you don't claim that it is intended and "I do understand how this may be unexpected". If it affects multiple users, you don't do opt-in refunds (which is again, illegal, and is a scam if intentional). > Maybe they're secretly twirling their evil mustaches figuring out how to scam their previous customers They've just admitted it?