4 ms·
Spain is mostly back up. Plant startup is only the first step.[1] It's load pickup. Here is a PJM training module on load pickup during system restoration.[2]
by Animats 2y ago
Spain is mostly back up.
Plant startup is only the first step.[1] It's load pickup.
Here is a PJM training module on load pickup during system restoration.[2] It gives a sense of how touchy the process is. Power network control has good control over generation and transmission, but limited control over load.
When load is turned on, there are transient loads with different time constants. There's a huge load for the first second as inductors, capacitors, and incandescent filaments start up. That tails off in under a second. There's a second load as motors wind up to speed. Ten seconds or so. Then there's "cold load", where everything in HVAC starts trying to get temperatures back to normal. Maybe half an hour.
There's no mention of computer control. Listening to this, you visualize people running around reading meters and throwing big switches. It's probably people looking at display boards and sending commands to remote big switches, but the concept is the same.
Botching this means voltage or frequency goes out of tolerance, protective devices shut things down, and the system operators have to start over.
More PJM training modules on related subjects.[3]
Unclear what caused this yet. Something caused enough system instability to trip protective devices, but there's no good info yet. Once everybody has a chance to compare all the logging data from different points, it will make more sense.
[1] https://pjm.adobeconnect.com/_a16103949/p622tuwooba/ https://pjm.adobeconnect.com/_a16103949/p622tuwooba/
[2] https://pjm.adobeconnect.com/p6e5csm81ter/ https://pjm.adobeconnect.com/p6e5csm81ter/
[23 https://www.pjm.com/training/training-resources https://www.pjm.com/training/training-resources
- amelius 2y agoSounds like these systems are extremely vulnerable to sabotage. But adding more complexity such as distributed digitally controlled loads will not necessarily make the situation much better.
- pjc50 2y agoIn theory maybe, but Ukraine are doing a great job of keeping their grid up in a hot war despite attacks on power infrastructure.
- justlikereddit 2y agoThe groundwork for the blackout will inevitably come back to a buildout and reliance of renewable sources that do not have spinning mass that can do frequency synchronization. There are costly means to compensate for the lack of spinning baseload but actually building these devices have been neglected, to no ones surprise.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- lifty 2y agoNot sure why you are downvoted but this rings true to me.
- moralestapia 2y agoFor about 2-3 years the default for people here has been to downvote everything rather than driving discussion; much more reddit-esque than what it used to be. There are no other sites like this one to jump to, unfortunately. On-topic: Wind power brings in about 20% of Spain's electricity, and that one fluctuates a lot indeed. I hope they put out a detailed post-mortem, I'd be an enjoyable read.
- moralestapia 2y agoExhibit A: this comment. Some even borrowed the essence of it, posted it elsewhere and still downvoted, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
- rdtsc 2y agoJust like there is vibe coding, this is vibe downvoting: “they are probably right, but kinda feels like they are dissing renewables, and I like renewables, better downvote just in case”
- pjc50 2y agoYou're right, but: the renewables "debate" is a massive tar-pit of bad faith arguments. People are tired of rehashing that. The best solution is not to slow the rollout of renewables but to accelerate the rollout of battery storage. (also we're a bit early for a proper postmortem, but that's an inevitable reality of social media, got to get the talking points in before the facts)