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> Screen Studio is a screen recorder for macOS. It is desktop app. It means we need some auto-updater to allow users to install the latest app version easily.

by jve 1y ago

> Screen Studio is a screen recorder for macOS. It is desktop app. It means we need some auto-updater to allow users to install the latest app version easily. No, it doesn't mean that. Auto updater introduced series of bad outcomes. - Downloading update without consent, causing traffic for client. - Not only that, the download keeps repeating itself every 5 minutes? You did at least detect whether user is on metered connection, right... ? - A bug where update popup interrupts flow - A popup is a bad thing on itself you do to your users. I think it is OK when closing the app and let the rest be done in background. - Some people actually pay attention to outgoing connections apps make and even a simple update check every 5 minutes is excessive. Why even do it while app is running? Do on startup and ask on close. Again some complexity: Assume you're not on network, do it in background and don't bother retrying much. - Additional complexity for app that caused all of the above. And it came with a price tag to developer. Wouldn't app store be perfect way to handle updates in this case to offload the complexity there?

socalgal2 1y ago
Does the app store handle staged rollouts? That was a thing I thought was missing from this writeup. Ideally you only roll up the update to a small percent of users. You then check to see if anything broke (no idea how long to wait, 1 day?). Then you increase the percent a little more (say, 1% to 5%) and wait a day again and check. Finally you update everyone (who has updates on)
- djxfade 1y ago
  Yes it does support this
- dahcryn 1y ago
  yes obviously something as mature as the App store supports phased rollout. I believe it is even the default setting once you reach certain audience sizes. Updates are always spread over 7 days slowly increasing the numbers
HelloNurse 1y ago
App store updates are perfect: no unnecessary complications, no unnecessary work (assuming Screen Studio is published and properly updated in the app store), and the worst case scenario is notifications about a new Screen Studio version ending up in a Screen Studio recording in progress. Thinking of it, the discussed do-it-yourself update checking is so stupid that malice and/or other serious bugs should be assumed.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  Exactly. The AppStore already exists and does updates (either automatically or manually, configurable by the user). The developer didn't have to lift a finger to get this functionality. Imagine sitting down and spending time adding functionality to your application that is already provided for free by the operating system, and then after all that, doing it incorrectly!
  - HelloNurse 1y ago
    Starting from the paid developer accounts, the Apple app store isn't "provided for free by the operating system" and it is a source of endless busywork, fear and suffering, but the argument stands: a professional Macintosh software vendor uses the app store because Macintosh users expect it, so it can be assumed that "properly" publishing new software version to the app store is a sunken cost that should be made as useful as possible.
    - ryandrake 1y ago
      By "provided for free" I mean the App Store comes with the OS, costs nothing (monetarily) to the developer over the existing annual Apple Developer Program fee, which pretty much all macOS developers pay anyway, and can be counted on to exist on all macOS installations.
- bearjaws 1y ago
  Yeah no, publishing to the App Store is a nightmare in cost and time. I can 100% guarantee they still saved money on 30% fees even after this $8000 snafu. Screen Studio has 32k followers, lets say 6% are end users, 2000 users at $229, that is $137k in App Store fees. I am going to say writing your own app update script is a wash time wise, as getting your app published is not trivial, especially for an app that requires as many permissions as screen studio.
Nition 1y ago
While we're listing complaints... 250MB for a screen recorder update?
- crest 1y ago
  And even when nothing changed?!? Fucking lazy developers aka "I have an idle ≥1Gb/s pipe to the download server". What happened to rsync/zsync/zstd (with dictionary)? There are so many good tools freely available to reduce wasted bandwidth when you insist on reinventing the wheel. sigh
  - aidenn0 1y ago
    I'd like to point out https://www.daemonology.net/bsdiff/ https://www.daemonology.net/bsdiff/ as a good, free, option for delta updates.
- yojo 1y ago
  That’s pretty much the floor for an Electron app. If you’re a small shop or solo dev, it is real hard to justify going native on three platforms when electron gives it for (near) free. And outside of HN, no one seems to blink at a 250MB bundle. There are alternatives like Tauri that use the system browser and allow substantially smaller bundles, but they’re not nearly as mature as Electron, and you will get cross platform UI bugs (some of which vary by user’s OS version!) from the lack of standardization.
  - goodpoint 1y ago
    > And outside of HN, no one seems to blink at a 250MB bundle. Except like 1 or maybe 2 billion people with slow or expensive internet.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - rafram 1y ago
    This app is Mac-only, which makes the choice to use Electron a little confusing.
dist-epoch 1y ago
> Wouldn't app store be perfect way to handle updates But then the HN crowd would complain "why use an app store? that's gate keeping, apple could remove your app any day, just give me a download link, and so on..." You literally can't win.
- wqaatwt 1y ago
  You can? Don’t check for updates every 5 minutes. Daily or even weekly would be sufficient for an app like this (if auto-updater is even necessary at all.. just show a notification)
amelius 1y ago
As a user I hate auto updates. It feels like someone pulling the rug from under me.

by jve 1y ago

socalgal2 1y ago

Does the app store handle staged rollouts? That was a thing I thought was missing from this writeup. Ideally you only roll up the update to a small percent of users. You then check to see if anything broke (no idea how long to wait, 1 day?). Then you increase the percent a little more (say, 1% to 5%) and wait a day again and check. Finally you update everyone (who has updates on)

djxfade 1y ago
Yes it does support this
dahcryn 1y ago
yes obviously something as mature as the App store supports phased rollout. I believe it is even the default setting once you reach certain audience sizes. Updates are always spread over 7 days slowly increasing the numbers

HelloNurse 1y ago

App store updates are perfect: no unnecessary complications, no unnecessary work (assuming Screen Studio is published and properly updated in the app store), and the worst case scenario is notifications about a new Screen Studio version ending up in a Screen Studio recording in progress. Thinking of it, the discussed do-it-yourself update checking is so stupid that malice and/or other serious bugs should be assumed.

ryandrake 1y ago
Exactly. The AppStore already exists and does updates (either automatically or manually, configurable by the user). The developer didn't have to lift a finger to get this functionality. Imagine sitting down and spending time adding functionality to your application that is already provided for free by the operating system, and then after all that, doing it incorrectly!
- HelloNurse 1y ago
  Starting from the paid developer accounts, the Apple app store isn't "provided for free by the operating system" and it is a source of endless busywork, fear and suffering, but the argument stands: a professional Macintosh software vendor uses the app store because Macintosh users expect it, so it can be assumed that "properly" publishing new software version to the app store is a sunken cost that should be made as useful as possible.
  - ryandrake 1y ago
    By "provided for free" I mean the App Store comes with the OS, costs nothing (monetarily) to the developer over the existing annual Apple Developer Program fee, which pretty much all macOS developers pay anyway, and can be counted on to exist on all macOS installations.
bearjaws 1y ago
Yeah no, publishing to the App Store is a nightmare in cost and time. I can 100% guarantee they still saved money on 30% fees even after this $8000 snafu. Screen Studio has 32k followers, lets say 6% are end users, 2000 users at $229, that is $137k in App Store fees. I am going to say writing your own app update script is a wash time wise, as getting your app published is not trivial, especially for an app that requires as many permissions as screen studio.

Nition 1y ago

While we're listing complaints... 250MB for a screen recorder update?

crest 1y ago
And even when nothing changed?!? Fucking lazy developers aka "I have an idle ≥1Gb/s pipe to the download server". What happened to rsync/zsync/zstd (with dictionary)? There are so many good tools freely available to reduce wasted bandwidth when you insist on reinventing the wheel. sigh
- aidenn0 1y ago
  I'd like to point out https://www.daemonology.net/bsdiff/ https://www.daemonology.net/bsdiff/ as a good, free, option for delta updates.
yojo 1y ago
That’s pretty much the floor for an Electron app. If you’re a small shop or solo dev, it is real hard to justify going native on three platforms when electron gives it for (near) free. And outside of HN, no one seems to blink at a 250MB bundle. There are alternatives like Tauri that use the system browser and allow substantially smaller bundles, but they’re not nearly as mature as Electron, and you will get cross platform UI bugs (some of which vary by user’s OS version!) from the lack of standardization.
- goodpoint 1y ago
  > And outside of HN, no one seems to blink at a 250MB bundle. Except like 1 or maybe 2 billion people with slow or expensive internet.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- rafram 1y ago
  This app is Mac-only, which makes the choice to use Electron a little confusing.

dist-epoch 1y ago

> Wouldn't app store be perfect way to handle updates But then the HN crowd would complain "why use an app store? that's gate keeping, apple could remove your app any day, just give me a download link, and so on..." You literally can't win.

wqaatwt 1y ago
You can? Don’t check for updates every 5 minutes. Daily or even weekly would be sufficient for an app like this (if auto-updater is even necessary at all.. just show a notification)

amelius 1y ago

As a user I hate auto updates. It feels like someone pulling the rug from under me.