4 ms·

Didn't we used to pump steam around for heating and now homes have individual furnaces? If the cost for this were about the cost of a furnace I don't see why th

Didn't we used to pump steam around for heating and now homes have individual furnaces? If the cost for this were about the cost of a furnace I don't see why this wouldn't be viable. I bought a generator for just this situation.

Loughla 2y ago
There is a very, very appreciable difference between moving hot steam around and moving electricity around. The thing you said doesn't really make sense to me; I'm not sure it's an apt analogy.
tomatocracy 2y ago
Plenty of places still do, and in those places district heating still is usually the cheapest source of heat.
elric 2y ago
That's a great example of why this is a bad idea. District heating is a lot more efficient than using individual heat sources. Especially so when the heat being used is heat that would otherwise go to waste (e.g. waste heat from industrial processes).
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  I get the efficiency obsession, this being an engineer forum, but aren't we talking about resilience?
  - elric 2y ago
    I think we can have both? I don't think anyone is advocating for one giant battery. In my ideal imaginary world, there are medium sized battery parks near every transformer station. In that same fantasy, the foundations of wind turbines are also batteries, so I shouldn't pretend that this is hard science.
matkoniecz 2y ago
In Polish cities there are attempts to move in exact opposite way (close individual furnaces) due to rampant pollution during winter (1000% of PM 2.5 norm level of pollution happening occasionally, over 400% PM2.5 norm lasting for weeks etc)
fulafel 2y ago
First-gen district heating was steam, then moved to hot water. It didn't go away [1] but there's regional differences. In cold climates there are oil based simpler backup plants that can cover for the normal CHP[2] and elctric+heat pump based generation. It's a good way to buffer and use cheap energy in periods of cheap electricty from eg high wind production[3]. [1] https://www.wedistrict.eu/interactive-map-share-of-district-heating-and-cooling-across-europe/ https://www.wedistrict.eu/interactive-map-share-of-district-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogeneration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogeneration [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage
quickthrowman 2y ago
There are plenty of places that still have district heating and cooling.

Loughla 2y ago

There is a very, very appreciable difference between moving hot steam around and moving electricity around. The thing you said doesn't really make sense to me; I'm not sure it's an apt analogy.

tomatocracy 2y ago

Plenty of places still do, and in those places district heating still is usually the cheapest source of heat.

elric 2y ago

That's a great example of why this is a bad idea. District heating is a lot more efficient than using individual heat sources. Especially so when the heat being used is heat that would otherwise go to waste (e.g. waste heat from industrial processes).

jvanderbot 2y ago
I get the efficiency obsession, this being an engineer forum, but aren't we talking about resilience?
- elric 2y ago
  I think we can have both? I don't think anyone is advocating for one giant battery. In my ideal imaginary world, there are medium sized battery parks near every transformer station. In that same fantasy, the foundations of wind turbines are also batteries, so I shouldn't pretend that this is hard science.

matkoniecz 2y ago

In Polish cities there are attempts to move in exact opposite way (close individual furnaces) due to rampant pollution during winter (1000% of PM 2.5 norm level of pollution happening occasionally, over 400% PM2.5 norm lasting for weeks etc)

fulafel 2y ago

First-gen district heating was steam, then moved to hot water. It didn't go away [1] but there's regional differences. In cold climates there are oil based simpler backup plants that can cover for the normal CHP[2] and elctric+heat pump based generation. It's a good way to buffer and use cheap energy in periods of cheap electricty from eg high wind production[3]. [1] https://www.wedistrict.eu/interactive-map-share-of-district-heating-and-cooling-across-europe/ https://www.wedistrict.eu/interactive-map-share-of-district-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogeneration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogeneration [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage

quickthrowman 2y ago

There are plenty of places that still have district heating and cooling.