4 ms·

Gun deaths: 46,000 Car deaths: 40,901 Gun utility: small Car utility: large (data from CDC and NHTSA for 2023)

by branko_d 1y ago

digianarchist 1y ago
I feel like intentional self-inflicted gunshot deaths should be removed. Not to say you still aren’t correct.
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago
  If you want to make a fair comparison, then one-sided car accidents should be removed too.
  - cutemonster 1y ago
    No, they're not intentional, they're accidents. And can be reduced by traffic laws and speed limits. Suicides (that is, guns) are intentional.
    - digianarchist 1y ago
      Exactly. People rarely purposely kill themselves in their cars.
    - shpongled 1y ago
      Most car "accidents" are intentional - drivers are choosing to speed (35%), drive intoxicated (30%), or scroll tiktok (15%) rather than pay attention to the road.
      - cutemonster 1y ago
        Interesting, all those things could be prevented using modern tech? Eg eye tracking (Not abruptly stopping the car because looking at TikTok, but ... Fines? Limiting speed? Withdrawn license, if repeated?) And building more railways, subways! Also creates jobs. Edit: From where did you get the numbers? I googled for "solo car crash reason statistics", and sleepiness seemed to be one main reason (too?)
        shpongled 1y ago
        I just googled "car fatalities [alcohol/distracted]" etc, and found either NHTSA or California statistics. All of them could be prevented using modern tech, but considering that we can't even get speed cameras socially/legally accepted I don't see it happening. We just don't have a culture of caring about this stuff in the US, despite >40,000 people dying each year due to traffic fatalities. [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving [2] https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/speeding https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/speeding [3] https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/distracted-driving https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/distracted-driving
admissionsguy 1y ago
> Gun utility: small For you.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- anon_e-moose 1y ago
  Considering the whole world, gun utility for the civilian population is clearly much smaller than car utility. You will also find even in US a higher number of individuals that have at least one car VS number of individuals that have at least one gun. Sure the reverse might be true for a minority, but the majority scenario is out there with plenty of statistical and empirical evidence. I'm neither pro nor anti-gun, just stating facts.
  - bluecalm 1y ago
    Yeah but it's about utility of cars but speeding in cars.
  - admissionsguy 1y ago
    I am not comparing the relative utility of cars and guns, but questioning the claim that the utility of gun ownership is small.
    - vel0city 1y ago
      If you're not in a warzone or deep in a jungle needing to fend of jaguars the utility of a gun is likely extremely small.
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago
  Assuming you have high utility for guns, what do you use it for? Hunting? I'm no hunter and have never felt like I need a gun.
  - peepeepoopoo114 1y ago
bluecalm 1y ago
I was wrong about absolute numbers, still if you subtract suicides and gang infightings reckless driving kills and hurts way more people. >>Gun utility: small Car utility: large It's not about cars but speeding in cars. You can eliminate one without the other. This is not the case with guns. Utility of speeding is negative even if you never kill anyone.
- branko_d 1y ago
  > It's not about cars but speeding in cars. That's like saying "it's not about guns but killing by guns". If we could only identify those pesky people that will kill with their guns before they do it, we could solve our problem! Just as if we could separate out only the drivers that will crash before they actually do it. Alas, while you can probably speed many times without serious consequences, shooting someone without serious consequences is far rarer! This means we at least have a chance to catch the repeated speeders before they do irreparable harm, but we rarely have the same luxury with shooters.
  - bluecalm 1y ago
    It's not like that because it's very easy to prevent cars from speeding. It's just matter of political will. With guns the only way to prevent most of gun violence of to take the guns away.

Gun deaths: 46,000 Car deaths: 40,901 Gun utility: small Car utility: large (data from CDC and NHTSA for 2023)

digianarchist 1y ago

I feel like intentional self-inflicted gunshot deaths should be removed. Not to say you still aren’t correct.

Cthulhu_ 1y ago
If you want to make a fair comparison, then one-sided car accidents should be removed too.
- cutemonster 1y ago
  No, they're not intentional, they're accidents. And can be reduced by traffic laws and speed limits. Suicides (that is, guns) are intentional.
  - digianarchist 1y ago
    Exactly. People rarely purposely kill themselves in their cars.
  - shpongled 1y ago
    Most car "accidents" are intentional - drivers are choosing to speed (35%), drive intoxicated (30%), or scroll tiktok (15%) rather than pay attention to the road.
    - cutemonster 1y ago
      Interesting, all those things could be prevented using modern tech? Eg eye tracking (Not abruptly stopping the car because looking at TikTok, but ... Fines? Limiting speed? Withdrawn license, if repeated?) And building more railways, subways! Also creates jobs. Edit: From where did you get the numbers? I googled for "solo car crash reason statistics", and sleepiness seemed to be one main reason (too?)
      - shpongled 1y ago
        I just googled "car fatalities [alcohol/distracted]" etc, and found either NHTSA or California statistics. All of them could be prevented using modern tech, but considering that we can't even get speed cameras socially/legally accepted I don't see it happening. We just don't have a culture of caring about this stuff in the US, despite >40,000 people dying each year due to traffic fatalities. [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving [2] https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/speeding https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/speeding [3] https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/distracted-driving https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/distracted-driving

admissionsguy 1y ago

> Gun utility: small For you.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
anon_e-moose 1y ago
Considering the whole world, gun utility for the civilian population is clearly much smaller than car utility. You will also find even in US a higher number of individuals that have at least one car VS number of individuals that have at least one gun. Sure the reverse might be true for a minority, but the majority scenario is out there with plenty of statistical and empirical evidence. I'm neither pro nor anti-gun, just stating facts.
- bluecalm 1y ago
  Yeah but it's about utility of cars but speeding in cars.
- admissionsguy 1y ago
  I am not comparing the relative utility of cars and guns, but questioning the claim that the utility of gun ownership is small.
  - vel0city 1y ago
    If you're not in a warzone or deep in a jungle needing to fend of jaguars the utility of a gun is likely extremely small.
Cthulhu_ 1y ago
Assuming you have high utility for guns, what do you use it for? Hunting? I'm no hunter and have never felt like I need a gun.
- peepeepoopoo114 1y ago

bluecalm 1y ago

I was wrong about absolute numbers, still if you subtract suicides and gang infightings reckless driving kills and hurts way more people. >>Gun utility: small Car utility: large It's not about cars but speeding in cars. You can eliminate one without the other. This is not the case with guns. Utility of speeding is negative even if you never kill anyone.

branko_d 1y ago
> It's not about cars but speeding in cars. That's like saying "it's not about guns but killing by guns". If we could only identify those pesky people that will kill with their guns before they do it, we could solve our problem! Just as if we could separate out only the drivers that will crash before they actually do it. Alas, while you can probably speed many times without serious consequences, shooting someone without serious consequences is far rarer! This means we at least have a chance to catch the repeated speeders before they do irreparable harm, but we rarely have the same luxury with shooters.
- bluecalm 1y ago
  It's not like that because it's very easy to prevent cars from speeding. It's just matter of political will. With guns the only way to prevent most of gun violence of to take the guns away.