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Okay, this is cool. It's a copper-tantalum-lithium alloy: 96.5% Cu, 3% Ta, 0.5% Li. Tantalum isn't soluble in copper and doesn't form any intermetallic compou
by A_D_E_P_T 2y ago
Okay, this is cool.
It's a copper-tantalum-lithium alloy: 96.5% Cu, 3% Ta, 0.5% Li.
Tantalum isn't soluble in copper and doesn't form any intermetallic compounds, so under normal circumstances you'd get something like a metal matrix composite -- pure tantalum particles dispersed in a copper matrix. Add lithium, though, and the intermetallic Cu3Li forms, and tantalum is apparently very attracted to this stuff, so you end up with Cu3Li particles with Ta shells in that copper matrix.
Yield Strength = ~1000MPa, so it's genuinely on par with high-temp nickel superalloys, though somewhat weaker than the cobalt-base ones, and far weaker than the best steels.
Interestingly, it's actually a little bit weaker than the copper-beryllium alloy C17200. (YS: ~1200-1300 MPa.) But CuBe is very expensive, not very ductile, and potentially hazardous. Tantalum, though expensive, is still 10x cheaper than beryllium.
Depending on its thermal and electrical properties, and on its ease of manufacture, this could be a very versatile material, and may replace nickel/cobalt alloys in certain applications.
- nine_k 2y agoTo put this into perspective: nickel is approximately 2x as expensive as copper, and cobalt is 5-6 times as expensive, and the major cobalt producers are all politically problematic (DR Congo, China, Russia).
- sandworm101 2y agoIn the use cases imagined for this material, the cost of the base metals is basically irrelevant. Something like a jet turbine blade might have maybe 10$ worth of material, but after machining and a hundred other steps is worth 100x that ammount. A heatshield for a hypersonic missile? Maybe a kilo of copper, but perhaps a 1m+ purchase price
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- nine_k 2y agoMore affordable price seriously widens the range of applications, and thus the total addressable market. Not using hazardous substances like berillium additionally helps.
- sandworm101 2y agoBut it doesnt look very affordable. The process for making this stuff seems very involved. I dont think this will ever be a cheaper option, rather it will be something that offers new abilities unlike any existing material. So it will be for new use cases, not displacing existing materials.
- lazide 2y agoNot using beryllium will dramatically increases available uses, and it should be much cheaper after development. Even firearm suppressors, high voltage electrical parts (especially in specific areas in ultra high power motors and switch contactors), etc.
- Beretta_Vexee 2y agoNo material is cheap when it has just been developed. Titanium alloys were science fiction in the 1980s, and now I can find titanium camping forks and mugs for €10. Special steels can also cost a fortune (powder metallurgy, superduplex). There are many more foundries and workshops producing copper alloys than nickel alloys. The supply chain is much simpler and more diverse. Copper recycling is a reality, but nickel alloy recycling is less so. Significant efforts are being made to reduce dependence on rare metals. No one really knows which ones will actually break through in the future. But having more options is always a good thing.
- imtringued 2y agoThis isn't true actually. Aerospace grade aluminum, for example, is much more expensive and since you want to minimize weight with ortho- and iso-grids, you're throwing at least 50% of the material away. Another problem is that you not only need to consider the "base metal" of the part you're cutting, but also the cost of the tools that do the cutting (ignore the machine itself). You're consuming a lot of expensive endmills to get rid of the material.
- aussieguy1234 2y agoAustralia is the fourth largest producer. There are efforts to scale it up, although there are issues with that https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-24/critical-minerals-election-campaign-explainer/105210740 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-24/critical-minerals-ele...
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoIsn't cobalt basically a byproduct of copper mining though? Googled it and the Cobolt Institute says: > the vast majority is produced as a by-product from large scale copper and nickel mines
- Qwertious 2y agoThat isn't contradictory with "the major sources of cobalt (congo, russia, china) are problematic - it just implies that congo/russia/china have copper/nickel mines too. And to state the obvious, just because cobalt is usually a byproduct of copper mining, doesn't mean that copper mining usually produces cobalt as a byproduct.
- hinkley 2y agoFor instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennecott_Utah_Copper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennecott_Utah_Copper is sort of famous for coming into existence along with new techniques to extract copper from low density ores. They’re dismantling an entire mountain to produce 1% of the world’s copper. The word cobalt does not appear on this page. However I found a news article from about 18 months ago stating Rio Tinto, who apparently own that mine, signed an MOU with another company to explore recovering cobalt and bismuth, by experimenting on this mine. Which I take to mean is possible but not being done at present. But in a January update they mention bismuth experiments but not cobalt: https://www.fortuneminerals.com/news/press-releases/press-release-details/2025/Fortune-Minerals-Provides-an-Update-of-NICO-Project-Test-Work-Rio-Tinto-Process-Collaboration--Feasibility-Study/default.aspx https://www.fortuneminerals.com/news/press-releases/press-re...
- fakedang 2y agoTantalum is a conflict resource (DRC).
- nine_k 2y agoTrue. OTOH less tantalum is needed than cobalt would be needed for alternative alloys. Maybe the production of Rwanda, Brazil, Nigeria, Australia could suffice.
- junon 2y agoDoesn't cobalt also have the problem of rampant child labor, too?
- nandomrumber 2y agoFor reference, regular old structural steel is 250 to 350 MPa tensile yield strength.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- A_D_E_P_T 2y agoMild steel for rebar, sure. But even the average tool steel exceeds ~1400MPa, and today's most advanced maraging steels can hit 3000MPa. Steel wire can get even stronger than that.
- nandomrumber 2y agoFor sure. Typical rebar is 500MPa or higher. https://reid.com.au/upload/modules/document_loader/ReidBar_Design_Guide_AU_2015.pdf https://reid.com.au/upload/modules/document_loader/ReidBar_D... I was thinking structural steel as in that used for columns and beams etc. Example material test certificate for typical plate used for laser cutting structural steel bolted connection cleats welded to main member hot rolled steel structural sections, which are made from very similar bulk steel: https://cdn.dcs.bluescope.com.au/download/a-guide-to-using-test-certificates https://cdn.dcs.bluescope.com.au/download/a-guide-to-using-t...
- ReptileMan 2y agoCan you make decent bronze age sword out of it?
- Beretta_Vexee 2y agoIt does not mention corrosion resistance or thermal fatigue at all, but a copper-based alloy with good dimensional stability and thermal conductivity could be an interesting alternative to Inconel alloys for heat exchanger tubes.
- xxs 2y agoThe article mentions one year test at 800C being annealed. I suppose you meant thermal cycles?
- Beretta_Vexee 2y agoEnglish is not my native language. I am referring to fatigue caused by thermal cycling. Annealing for one year is done to test the chemical stability of the alloy and ensure that there is no migration or segregation of alloy elements. There may be unstable hydrodynamic phenomena in a pipe or heat exchanger, which generates a large number of thermal cycles. Such as the instability of a vortex in a mixing or heat exchange zone. This is a different ageing mechanism. It is very complicated and time-consuming to test in the laboratory.
- mapt 2y agoThe two outstanding things we get out of copper are thermal conductivity and electrical conductivity. If it converts, we get those properties in a mechanically strong material.
- hinkley 2y agoI think one of the critics of ITER points out there’s not enough beryllium production on the planet currently to supply more than a few fusion power plants. And it’s rare enough that maybe it couldn’t be ramped very high. By the ITER design they use beryllium to multiply neutrons to make their supply of Helium 3. Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berylliosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berylliosis does not sound fun.