4 ms·

Medical school and residency is extremely stressful for extremely stupid reasons. Medical school is still rooted in the 1950s in a lot of ways, with an emphasi

Medical school and residency is extremely stressful for extremely stupid reasons. Medical school is still rooted in the 1950s in a lot of ways, with an emphasis on memorization which is just patently ridiculous in an age of smartphones and search engines (not even factoring in the advent of LLMs). Residency involves working shifts that are best described as absolutely insane, in an environment that would be stressful enough as a five-hour shift, for little pay and even less prestige. Doctors should absolutely be able to handle stress, and I can appreciate some amount of "hell week" ritual to make sure all graduates are battle-hardened, but all reports I've seen indicate that the current state of affairs has way too much fire in the trial-by-fire, and the trial itself dwindles on way past the point of any benefit. It ends up producing doctors who are very, very good at doing a lot of busywork on deadline and getting yelled at, but aren't always the greatest at human intuition or thinking outside the flowchart, which is often to the detriment of patients.

mainecoder 1y ago
It is correct that reforms are needed. It is interesting however that this generation has the lowest mental toughness, since the standards did not necessarily increase but the people changed and could not handle the stress, wait until the tough times come.
- watwut 1y ago
  Did the standards actually "not increased?" It is very easy to just assume younger people cant possibly have more challenges then we did. And very hard to admit when they actually face harder competition then we did.
- esseph 1y ago
  "This generation has the lowest mental toughness" If you are in the US, in the past 25yr: * 9/11 * 25y of constant combat deployments around the world * 2008 recession * 2026-ish recession * Loss of company pensions and stability * Massive housing crisis in availability of type of homes needed, and costs - builders are only incentivized to build upper middle class+ housing in many areas * Gig work where people are working 3 jobs with no benefits or retirement becoming more popular * College financial cost unsustainable * Massive increase in school and public shootings * Covid Any ideas of stability in US society that may have come from their parents simply do not exist anymore. The path of a middle class life for most people in the US is gone. A gazillion more things I'm not thinking of. I'm getting close to 50, and any time somebody talks about how "x,y,z generation is weak", not even 99% of the time, but 100% of the time, I know the person saying that is simply incompetent.
  - MyPasswordSucks 1y ago
    I mean, are you really trying to say that the 2010s were worse than the 1930s or getting drafted into armed combat in the 1910s, 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s? To me, that's just playing into the stereotype of millennials.
    - ChrisClark 1y ago
      I'm pretty sure mainecoder, the person he was responding to, isn't 95 years old, so I think you can avoid any 1930s references :D
    - esseph 1y ago
      I didn't say anything along those lines. In fact, I want to highlight something in particular that I said that makes me wonder how much you wanted to react vs how much you actually read: "Any ideas of stability in US society that may have come from their parents simply do not exist anymore." I alluded to the 25 years of constant background combat deployments that most people aren't even aware of happening unless they are extremely impacted by it. Some more so than others, like the old Onion joke: https://theonion.com/soldier-excited-to-take-over-father-s-old-afghanistan-p-1819580201/ https://theonion.com/soldier-excited-to-take-over-father-s-o...
      - MyPasswordSucks 1y ago
        > I didn't say anything along those lines. It seems like you're arguing against the statement that "This generation [which we'll assume refers to millenials] has the lowest mental toughness". Then - again, by my reading here, so correct me if I'm misinterpreting you - you attempt to support your counterpoint with a list of events which - while certainly not great - pale, in my opinion, to the day-to-day fear of atomic war and the very real knowledge that even as things stand (e.g., without atomic war), your birthday could still be picked tomorrow, and within months you'll be shipped off to the killing fields. Simply put, it's possible for a thing to be bad, but not as-bad as another thing. I don't think previous generations were under any illusion of societal stability, except possibly the baby boomers - and they had 'Nam, JFK/MLK, Kent State, Watergate, and COINTELPRO to snap them out of that. Even with all the events you mention, US society is still far more stable than it was in the past. Of course, it'll seem much less stable if one only chooses to focus on the unstable, but I think it's fair to label that a you-problem.
- tekno45 1y ago
  do you know how much smoking and drinking at work there was when this system was started???
- bobmcnamara 1y ago
  > this generation has the lowest mental toughness, since the standards did not necessarily increase but the people changed and could not handle the stress, wait until the tough times come A bunch of people in every generation say this. My grandparents said it about those who got to skip growing up in the depression. Their grandparents about selling everything they owned and moving to America. Some days as I trudge through the snow to work uphill both ways I think of them.
  - phs318u 1y ago
    I was searching for some ancient quotes describing the same sentiment and found a page with several quotes, including this one from Aristotle (4th century BCE): "[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances. ... They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it." https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/28169/what-is-the-oldest-authentic-example-of-people-complaining-about-modern-times-an https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/28169/what-is-th...
impossiblefork 1y ago
Why do you think they should be battle hardened? Should violinists be? I really doubt it. What about truck drivers? It doesn't seem obvious at all. Tired people make nothing but bad decisions, and inducing someone to work when they're tired other than due to, for example, war, should probably not be permitted. But if so, they should probably be on stimulants, just as fighter pilots sometimes are.
- MyPasswordSucks 1y ago
  A violinist shouldn't get stage fright during a Vivaldi concert. A truck driver should know what to do if the brakes fail. A doctor shouldn't get flustered and try to leave the room when the emergency alert monitors are going off and people are yelling. I don't know why you're attacking me on those lines. Do you really think I believe "fatigue" is the same as "battle-hardening"? Like, considering that I actually wrote "shifts that are best described as absolutely insane" and "way too much fire in the trial-by-fire".
  - impossiblefork 1y ago
    You did say 'hell week' which I interpret as something involving fatigue and possibly even lack of sleep, as the final military exercises in certain military training courses often do.

mainecoder 1y ago

It is correct that reforms are needed. It is interesting however that this generation has the lowest mental toughness, since the standards did not necessarily increase but the people changed and could not handle the stress, wait until the tough times come.

watwut 1y ago
Did the standards actually "not increased?" It is very easy to just assume younger people cant possibly have more challenges then we did. And very hard to admit when they actually face harder competition then we did.
esseph 1y ago
"This generation has the lowest mental toughness" If you are in the US, in the past 25yr: * 9/11 * 25y of constant combat deployments around the world * 2008 recession * 2026-ish recession * Loss of company pensions and stability * Massive housing crisis in availability of type of homes needed, and costs - builders are only incentivized to build upper middle class+ housing in many areas * Gig work where people are working 3 jobs with no benefits or retirement becoming more popular * College financial cost unsustainable * Massive increase in school and public shootings * Covid Any ideas of stability in US society that may have come from their parents simply do not exist anymore. The path of a middle class life for most people in the US is gone. A gazillion more things I'm not thinking of. I'm getting close to 50, and any time somebody talks about how "x,y,z generation is weak", not even 99% of the time, but 100% of the time, I know the person saying that is simply incompetent.
- MyPasswordSucks 1y ago
  I mean, are you really trying to say that the 2010s were worse than the 1930s or getting drafted into armed combat in the 1910s, 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s? To me, that's just playing into the stereotype of millennials.
  - ChrisClark 1y ago
    I'm pretty sure mainecoder, the person he was responding to, isn't 95 years old, so I think you can avoid any 1930s references :D
  - esseph 1y ago
    I didn't say anything along those lines. In fact, I want to highlight something in particular that I said that makes me wonder how much you wanted to react vs how much you actually read: "Any ideas of stability in US society that may have come from their parents simply do not exist anymore." I alluded to the 25 years of constant background combat deployments that most people aren't even aware of happening unless they are extremely impacted by it. Some more so than others, like the old Onion joke: https://theonion.com/soldier-excited-to-take-over-father-s-old-afghanistan-p-1819580201/ https://theonion.com/soldier-excited-to-take-over-father-s-o...
    - MyPasswordSucks 1y ago
      > I didn't say anything along those lines. It seems like you're arguing against the statement that "This generation [which we'll assume refers to millenials] has the lowest mental toughness". Then - again, by my reading here, so correct me if I'm misinterpreting you - you attempt to support your counterpoint with a list of events which - while certainly not great - pale, in my opinion, to the day-to-day fear of atomic war and the very real knowledge that even as things stand (e.g., without atomic war), your birthday could still be picked tomorrow, and within months you'll be shipped off to the killing fields. Simply put, it's possible for a thing to be bad, but not as-bad as another thing. I don't think previous generations were under any illusion of societal stability, except possibly the baby boomers - and they had 'Nam, JFK/MLK, Kent State, Watergate, and COINTELPRO to snap them out of that. Even with all the events you mention, US society is still far more stable than it was in the past. Of course, it'll seem much less stable if one only chooses to focus on the unstable, but I think it's fair to label that a you-problem.
tekno45 1y ago
do you know how much smoking and drinking at work there was when this system was started???
bobmcnamara 1y ago
> this generation has the lowest mental toughness, since the standards did not necessarily increase but the people changed and could not handle the stress, wait until the tough times come A bunch of people in every generation say this. My grandparents said it about those who got to skip growing up in the depression. Their grandparents about selling everything they owned and moving to America. Some days as I trudge through the snow to work uphill both ways I think of them.
- phs318u 1y ago
  I was searching for some ancient quotes describing the same sentiment and found a page with several quotes, including this one from Aristotle (4th century BCE): "[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances. ... They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it." https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/28169/what-is-the-oldest-authentic-example-of-people-complaining-about-modern-times-an https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/28169/what-is-th...

impossiblefork 1y ago

Why do you think they should be battle hardened? Should violinists be? I really doubt it. What about truck drivers? It doesn't seem obvious at all. Tired people make nothing but bad decisions, and inducing someone to work when they're tired other than due to, for example, war, should probably not be permitted. But if so, they should probably be on stimulants, just as fighter pilots sometimes are.

MyPasswordSucks 1y ago
A violinist shouldn't get stage fright during a Vivaldi concert. A truck driver should know what to do if the brakes fail. A doctor shouldn't get flustered and try to leave the room when the emergency alert monitors are going off and people are yelling. I don't know why you're attacking me on those lines. Do you really think I believe "fatigue" is the same as "battle-hardening"? Like, considering that I actually wrote "shifts that are best described as absolutely insane" and "way too much fire in the trial-by-fire".
- impossiblefork 1y ago
  You did say 'hell week' which I interpret as something involving fatigue and possibly even lack of sleep, as the final military exercises in certain military training courses often do.