8 ms·

Walmart plans EV Charging network which will blanket the US within a few years

97 points by tzs 2y ago

tzs 2y ago
Note: I submitted using the article's subtitle instead of the title, because the title was much less informative. The title is "EXCLUSIVE: Walmart EV Charging Network — Save Money, Charge Better". I did have to shorten the subtitle to fit. The full subtitle is "Walmart plans expansive EV Charging network which will blanket the US within a few years".
- jf 2y ago
  Thanks for making that decision, the title you picked is better
johnea 2y ago
> and offer access through its own Walmart app. 8-( I've _never_ been required to "join the club", or "run the app" to purchase gasoline. Why does charging an EV require use of an app? This is an accessibility issue and as such should be illegal...
- mayneack 2y ago
  It definitely sucks, but it seems likely that gas stations would require it if they were invented today.
  - autoexec 2y ago
    I doubt they'd get away with it. If they thought they could they'd already have done it, but it'd probably result in a lot of legislation and companies don't want regulation. The only reason Walmart can get away with it is that very few people have an electric car.
- vel0city 2y ago
  > Why does charging an EV require use of an app? It doesn't. Almost all DC fast charging I've done has been plug and charge or with a normal credit card terminal. Meanwhile when I buy gas at QT or Sam's Club I pay through an app.
  - johnea 2y ago
    First 2 steps on Walmart's instruction page: * Donwload the Walmart app * Scan the QR code
    - vel0city 2y ago
      So Walmart's chargers require it. But EVs can charge at places other than Walmart. So a valid response to "Why does charging an EV require use of an app" is, it doesn't, other places don't require it.
      - johnea 2y ago
        The article is about Walmart chargers 8-/ Even aside from that, many charging networks _do_ require "membership", "running the app", and often even require a pre-established balance on the account for the most convenient charging process. It seems Walmart is also planning to follow this strategy, which is the point of the original objection.
        vel0city 2y ago
        Your comment wasn't scoped to only Walmart chargers. It was scoped to "EV charging", which often doesn't require an app. As mentioned, the vast majority of my public DCFC experiences haven't used an app at all.
        dzhiurgis 2y ago
        Add to tourism gatekeeping checklist - a verified US phone number or local bank account (popular in Europe). Oh and the "app is not available in your country".
  - 2y ago
- kposehn 2y ago
  I think the app will be for plug-and-charge users, while they'll have credit card readers for everyone else. I do agree that chargers requiring an app are a royal pain. We're an all-EV household and I don't bother with local chargers that don't have readers or support plug-and-charge. There's a lot of Shell chargers in our area that require an app to work and almost no-one uses them because of how clunky it is.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    The article says the app is the primary way to activate the charger (scan a QR code on the dispenser) while they'll have credit card terminals for states that require it.
    - alostpuppy 2y ago
      This is how it works at Sam’s club gas fwiw
  - tzs 2y ago
    It will likely work for Walmart because as of 2021 the Walmart app had 120 million active monthly users [1]. That's almost half of the US adult population. For all of those people, using the chargers won't require downloading some new clunky app that they only have because of EV charging. It will be that an app they already have and use regularly and already have their payment information adds EV charging to the list of Walmart goods and services that they already use it for. [1] https://www.appsrhino.com/blogs/walmart-grocery-delivery-app-statistics https://www.appsrhino.com/blogs/walmart-grocery-delivery-app...
    - natch 2y ago
      I don’t know how people get these ideas. Teslas do not need any app for charging. I mean sure, they do have an app, but no need to even have the app on the phone or with you to charge. No need for a phone or a credit card or a code or a password or a chip or a retina scan or interacting with a screen or tapping a keypad or anything. Just plug the plug into the car at the supercharger and it charges. Or, do it at home, cheaper.
- formerly_proven 2y ago
  US-specific issue
  - Lio 2y ago
    Is it? I think it's a problem in the UK too. Every charging network seems to have its own associated app. Planning long journeys means having an app for every stop. It really shouldn't.
    - formerly_proven 2y ago
      Yeah, basically every public charger in the continental EU is going to be on the intercharge network.
      - Lio 2y ago
        I'd love it if that's now true, has there been some change in this? Last time I looked into it InterCharge (OICP) was still just 1 of 4 competing protocols along with OCPI, OCHP and eMIP. Has OICP displaced the others now or are they still fighting it out?
        formerly_proven 2y ago
        I don't know and I don't think an EV driver has to care. Maybe it's not all intercharge, maybe there are more networks in the background. The salient point is the consumer perspective: I can have one generic app to handle charging payments for basically any public charge point and I interact the same way with all of them, I put the plug in my car and scan a QR code. The debate in that unified market is more about price discrimination, because prices at a given charge point may vary depending on who operates it versus who your e-mobility provider is. Which is quite annoying in itself and should be fixed. But paying 59 ct/kWh vs. 69 ct/kWh is quite different from having a dedicated "car charging apps" folder on your phone.
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      0 accessibility and government happily funds these companies.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Aurornis 2y ago
  The app says that credit card access will be available in the future “at least” in states that require it. > This is an accessibility issue and as such should be illegal... Assuming it was app-exclusive, you would have a hard time convincing anyone that someone might be capable of driving an EV on the road while also having enough of a disability to make it impossible for them to use a phone app. There are already members-only gas stations such as the ones attached to Costco. This would be following the same pattern but with an app instead of a card, which is actually far more easy to acquire than a paid Costco membership.
  - snypher 2y ago
    They could be dyslexic or something?
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    Not what they mean. Card doesn't need power, screen, OS, BigTech approval, etc. Cash requires even less.
    - Aurornis 2y ago
      > Cash requires even less. EV charging stations that take cash are not going to be common. Card or app allow unattended use. Cash does not.
      - mixmastamyk 2y ago
        Not common currently. Gas stations with mini-marts figured this out decades ago.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  Vulture capitalists want to know where you live and your income level so they can sell your profile on to other data brokers. Cash is practically a communist plot to give people freedom and liberty.
kposehn 2y ago
Glad to see Walmart going further with DCFC build-out, especially with 400kw chargers.
jarbus 2y ago
This would likely make EVs a lot more appealing and accessible to lower-income folks, love it.
lordnacho 2y ago
Makes a lot of sense from my amateur perspective. It takes a bit of time to charge a car, and you might as well use it to buy your groceries. Plus I'm sure WM can get a sensible bulk discount on electricity. Add to that, you can make people use your app and show them targeted adverts. You can get them to buy any bulk goods for pickup when they are charging the car.
- Reason077 2y ago
  Only trouble is, the cars charge too fast now days! An 800V vehicle like the Ioniq 5 can often be topped up in under 15 minutes, barely enough time to buy a coffee and use the restroom, let alone do any grocery shopping! And some charging networks apply idle fees if you don’t move your car quickly when charging completes. Of course, a car can only charge as fast as the charger, so maybe it makes sense (and certainly saves money) to install slightly slower ones at locations where customers are likely to want to spend longer times.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    Fast charging degrades the battery. Obviously you will choose a slower charger if you know you will be gone for 45 minutes. Walmart is also unlikely to have these charges, since they obviously do not want people to rush through their stores. (Obviously charges after a couple of hours might be there.)
    - Reason077 2y ago
      > "Fast charging degrades the battery." True, but in practical terms this is not worth worrying about for most of us. Saw a recent article where a Korean driver had done over 600,000km (~ 375,000 miles) in his Ioniq 5 on the original battery. He'd only ever used DC fast chargers, typically charging to 100%! His battery did fail around the 600,000km mark, but most vehicles never get anywhere close to that sort of mileage. And apparently it still retained 87% of original capacity up until that point. And despite being far out of warrantly, Hyundai replaced his battery as a goodwill (good publicity!) gesture.
  - 2y ago
Havoc 2y ago
Clever combination. Can definitely see that work out well
cbsmith 2y ago
$0.42/kwH is competitive? I think the highest I've ever paid was $0.43/kwH.
- fisherjeff 2y ago
  FWIW my nearest DCFC, the Electrify America station at my local Walmart, charges $0.56/kWh.
- fullstop 2y ago
  It depends on where you live and the time of day. I've seen some above $0.60 in Pennsylvania.
  - cbsmith 2y ago
    Sure, but in Texas?
    - fullstop 2y ago
      I've also seen them at $0.27 off-peak. It's all over the place.
    - vel0city 2y ago
      Yeah, I've seen around $0.40/kWh often. Looking around in plugshare I see a lot having around $0.50 in North Texas. DCFC is a good bit more expensive than a L2 charge.
      - cbsmith 2y ago
        I think I've been misled about the wonders of energy deregulation in Texas.
        vel0city 2y ago
        This is rates at DCFC. You're paying for far more than just the price of electricity. Those chargers and dispensers aren't free, they're often empty, they need to recoup costs in a few year horizon. Charging at home it costs me about $0.135/kWh.
999900000999 2y ago
Chaotic good, I could imagine Walmart deciding to sell a miniature EV for around $12,000. Imagine something like a two-seater City car, while I'm dreaming I imagine this type of vehicle completely taking over for most City commuting. Since these would be smaller and slower than normal cars, they would be phenomenally safer.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Very few people have purchased the gasoline-engine equivalent of such cars, so not sure why an EV version would fare a lot better.
  - mikeyouse 2y ago
    Especially when they are at Walmart to purchase it with a grocery cart full of groceries that you’d be hard pressed to fit in the E-Smart Car equivalent.
  - Reason077 2y ago
    … in the USA. European cities are full of small city cars. Driving (and parking) anything much larger can be impractical on many streets in Europe.
    - constantcrying 2y ago
      >… in the USA. European cities are full of small city cars. All of these cars are highway capable. The cars OP describes are extremely niche in Europe.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    Especially considering some ebikes are approaching $12k...
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  A 2 seater is never going to work in America. But electric trucks and vehicles definitely can if charging stations are ubiquitous and there is no range anxiety.
jasonthorsness 2y ago
Now do Costco!
russell_h 2y ago
At least in the Pacific Northwest most Electrify America installations are in Walmart parking lots. These have caused me to spend more time at Walmart the past two years, honestly its a pretty good experience - aside from EA reliability issues, which seem to have improved but still far short of Tesla.
- dheera 2y ago
  I have a hard time just picking up and plugging that heavy fatass CCS connector. And then I have to try plugging it in 3 times because it waits for the car and the car waits for it and one gives up before the other succeeds.
  - fullstop 2y ago
    I'm not a big dude, but I've never struggled with this.
    - darknavi 2y ago
      Used an EVCE charger yesterday that my wife struggled to pick up. The cable its self was just enormous and heavy compared to more modern chargers. Hopefully they go back and retrofit older chargers with newer cables when swapping over to NACS.
- darknavi 2y ago
  > honestly its a pretty good experience - aside from EA reliability issues, which seem to have improved but still far short of Tesla. Going from the Tesla Supercharger network I can't share this sentiment at all. Virtually every time I charge at an EA station (which is admittedly only a few times a year) there is either random power degradation with no notice or one or many totally dysfunctional stalls. This latest time a few days ago the only open stall was busted because the terminal said to unplug from the last session over an hour ago. The flakiness is compounded by the lack of chargers per station. Superchargers often have 10 or even 20 chargers, EA chargers often have 2 to 4 chargers so a charger going out is much worse.
constantcrying 2y ago
Germany already has a pretty good charging network, yet EV adoption is very slow. This will not change much. Charging infrastructure is only a small part of making EVs appealing, although it is obviously a necessary prerequisite.
- manmal 2y ago
  EV prices are just way too high. As a father of three, I can decide between a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k. Guess which one I went with. There are some other, cheaper, EV models with 7+ seats (40k+), but they charge so slow and need so much power in winter, you‘d get max 200km out of them and then need to charge 1h. Generally, most EVs you can buy in the EU are just 10-20k more expensive than their ICE counterparts, and incentive programs don’t make up for that difference.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    >I can decide between a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k. Guess which one I went with. I assume you are talking about the family van 2 series? And not the sporty 2 door 2 series. (Why didn't you buy a Touran?) You are also comparing used car prices to new car prices which is pretty insane. >EV prices are just way too high. Sure.
    - manmal 2y ago
      The Touran is quite a bit pricier than the 2er Grand Tourer, not sure why you are bringing it up. It’s an expensive car. > You are also comparing used car prices to new car prices which is pretty insane. I don’t care if the car is used or new tbh, I need 7 seats. I get that that’s not a super common situation, and that the comparison is unfair. The 2er was 40k when new. The thing is, there‘s basically no usable used 7 seater EVs in the non-crazy price range.
  - thebruce87m 2y ago
    > a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k A used lower end model from one manufacturer vs a new high end model from a different one doesn’t seem like a fair comparison.
daft_pink 2y ago
While I really hope that they do a great job with it, I have no faith in Walmart to offer an effective charging network. Doing everything on the absolute cheap leaves a lot to be desired. They were great when they were expanding and had great stores to lure you away from the competition, but now they operate under maintained not well staffed stores with confusing self checkout and obtrusive surveillance everywhere. It’s just a total race to the bottom at their stores. Hopefully it will encourage better players like Target to follow suit. Anyways, reality is that people buy EVs to charge them at home most of the time. At least thats what I think the reality is.
- ojbyrne 2y ago
  Or maybe it’s people who can charge at home are more likely to buy EVs.
- rchowe 2y ago
  The quality of store management seems to affect a lot when it comes to Walmart. I have been to some Walmart stores where I have never seen any unfolded clothing. I have been to some Walmart stores where I have never seen any folded clothing. An organization as large as Walmart has the wherewithal to put together an effective charging network if they decide it is a priority. One of the nice things about being first-party is that they will likely have a preventive maintenance program and emergency maintenance program for the chargers, and some of that can be done by the company electrician. I have a Tesla, and due to various factors (apartment living, other family members with Teslas), I almost exclusively use public chargers. I have some opinions of what amenities I want at a charger (bathroom, cold diet coke), but in general the chargers at gas stations, grocery stores, and Walmarts are the best for me. Restaurants and malls are actually not great amenities because that's often not the mood you are in when you arrive at the charger.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Seattle3503 2y ago
It feels like this will be big for road trips. Every road trip I've been on, it always felt there was a Walmart just a few miles miles the road.
theshrike79 2y ago
This is what made the charging infrastructure in Finland boom. We have two major grocery chains (a duopoly pretty much), and they started competing for the growing EV customer base by installing chargers at every store of theirs. Now just one of them has over 300 charging stations with about 2000 plugs, 5 years ago they had next to nothing. Turns out it's good for business when families stop to charge for 30 minutes, they drop a bunch of money for other services while they're at it. And I'll rather stop at a store to grab cheap snacks and ready to eat meals vs. paying through the nose for gas station prices. (We actually have some cups, plates, and cutlery in the car just for this)
coopreme 2y ago
This combined with the $20K electric truck looks promising. I just hope something like the blue rhino propane tank for batteries to offer a Battery drop in.
yuliyp 2y ago
I wonder how this will affect their relationship with Electrify America, which has like 30% of its charging locations in Walmart or Sams Club locations.
fnordpiglet 2y ago
I’m surprised they can find the transformers. As I understand it even without any government subsidy transformer production backlog is through 2030. We had a Tesla super charger site near us sit idle for over a year waiting for a transformer. A family member is a lead on transformer manufacturing at hitachi and they can’t build transformer production capacity fast enough to keep up with the rate of change of orders. https://www.utilitydive.com/news/electric-transformer-shortage-nrel-niac/738947/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/electric-transformer-shorta...
tocs3 2y ago
I hope they pair this with solar panel awnings in the parking lots. 30 acre parking lots in Central Texas (and I am sure elsewhere) are a killer. I am not sure why more big box stores (HEB, Home Depot, etc.) have not been a little more active with this sort of thing.

97 points by tzs 2y ago

tzs 2y ago

Note: I submitted using the article's subtitle instead of the title, because the title was much less informative. The title is "EXCLUSIVE: Walmart EV Charging Network — Save Money, Charge Better". I did have to shorten the subtitle to fit. The full subtitle is "Walmart plans expansive EV Charging network which will blanket the US within a few years".

jf 2y ago
Thanks for making that decision, the title you picked is better

johnea 2y ago

> and offer access through its own Walmart app. 8-( I've _never_ been required to "join the club", or "run the app" to purchase gasoline. Why does charging an EV require use of an app? This is an accessibility issue and as such should be illegal...

mayneack 2y ago
It definitely sucks, but it seems likely that gas stations would require it if they were invented today.
- autoexec 2y ago
  I doubt they'd get away with it. If they thought they could they'd already have done it, but it'd probably result in a lot of legislation and companies don't want regulation. The only reason Walmart can get away with it is that very few people have an electric car.
vel0city 2y ago
> Why does charging an EV require use of an app? It doesn't. Almost all DC fast charging I've done has been plug and charge or with a normal credit card terminal. Meanwhile when I buy gas at QT or Sam's Club I pay through an app.
- johnea 2y ago
  First 2 steps on Walmart's instruction page: * Donwload the Walmart app * Scan the QR code
  - vel0city 2y ago
    So Walmart's chargers require it. But EVs can charge at places other than Walmart. So a valid response to "Why does charging an EV require use of an app" is, it doesn't, other places don't require it.
    - johnea 2y ago
      The article is about Walmart chargers 8-/ Even aside from that, many charging networks _do_ require "membership", "running the app", and often even require a pre-established balance on the account for the most convenient charging process. It seems Walmart is also planning to follow this strategy, which is the point of the original objection.
      - vel0city 2y ago
        Your comment wasn't scoped to only Walmart chargers. It was scoped to "EV charging", which often doesn't require an app. As mentioned, the vast majority of my public DCFC experiences haven't used an app at all.
      - dzhiurgis 2y ago
        Add to tourism gatekeeping checklist - a verified US phone number or local bank account (popular in Europe). Oh and the "app is not available in your country".
- 2y ago
kposehn 2y ago
I think the app will be for plug-and-charge users, while they'll have credit card readers for everyone else. I do agree that chargers requiring an app are a royal pain. We're an all-EV household and I don't bother with local chargers that don't have readers or support plug-and-charge. There's a lot of Shell chargers in our area that require an app to work and almost no-one uses them because of how clunky it is.
- vel0city 2y ago
  The article says the app is the primary way to activate the charger (scan a QR code on the dispenser) while they'll have credit card terminals for states that require it.
  - alostpuppy 2y ago
    This is how it works at Sam’s club gas fwiw
- tzs 2y ago
  It will likely work for Walmart because as of 2021 the Walmart app had 120 million active monthly users [1]. That's almost half of the US adult population. For all of those people, using the chargers won't require downloading some new clunky app that they only have because of EV charging. It will be that an app they already have and use regularly and already have their payment information adds EV charging to the list of Walmart goods and services that they already use it for. [1] https://www.appsrhino.com/blogs/walmart-grocery-delivery-app-statistics https://www.appsrhino.com/blogs/walmart-grocery-delivery-app...
  - natch 2y ago
    I don’t know how people get these ideas. Teslas do not need any app for charging. I mean sure, they do have an app, but no need to even have the app on the phone or with you to charge. No need for a phone or a credit card or a code or a password or a chip or a retina scan or interacting with a screen or tapping a keypad or anything. Just plug the plug into the car at the supercharger and it charges. Or, do it at home, cheaper.
formerly_proven 2y ago
US-specific issue
- Lio 2y ago
  Is it? I think it's a problem in the UK too. Every charging network seems to have its own associated app. Planning long journeys means having an app for every stop. It really shouldn't.
  - formerly_proven 2y ago
    Yeah, basically every public charger in the continental EU is going to be on the intercharge network.
    - Lio 2y ago
      I'd love it if that's now true, has there been some change in this? Last time I looked into it InterCharge (OICP) was still just 1 of 4 competing protocols along with OCPI, OCHP and eMIP. Has OICP displaced the others now or are they still fighting it out?
      - formerly_proven 2y ago
        I don't know and I don't think an EV driver has to care. Maybe it's not all intercharge, maybe there are more networks in the background. The salient point is the consumer perspective: I can have one generic app to handle charging payments for basically any public charge point and I interact the same way with all of them, I put the plug in my car and scan a QR code. The debate in that unified market is more about price discrimination, because prices at a given charge point may vary depending on who operates it versus who your e-mobility provider is. Which is quite annoying in itself and should be fixed. But paying 59 ct/kWh vs. 69 ct/kWh is quite different from having a dedicated "car charging apps" folder on your phone.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    0 accessibility and government happily funds these companies.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Aurornis 2y ago
The app says that credit card access will be available in the future “at least” in states that require it. > This is an accessibility issue and as such should be illegal... Assuming it was app-exclusive, you would have a hard time convincing anyone that someone might be capable of driving an EV on the road while also having enough of a disability to make it impossible for them to use a phone app. There are already members-only gas stations such as the ones attached to Costco. This would be following the same pattern but with an app instead of a card, which is actually far more easy to acquire than a paid Costco membership.
- snypher 2y ago
  They could be dyslexic or something?
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  Not what they mean. Card doesn't need power, screen, OS, BigTech approval, etc. Cash requires even less.
  - Aurornis 2y ago
    > Cash requires even less. EV charging stations that take cash are not going to be common. Card or app allow unattended use. Cash does not.
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      Not common currently. Gas stations with mini-marts figured this out decades ago.
kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
Vulture capitalists want to know where you live and your income level so they can sell your profile on to other data brokers. Cash is practically a communist plot to give people freedom and liberty.

kposehn 2y ago

Glad to see Walmart going further with DCFC build-out, especially with 400kw chargers.

jarbus 2y ago

This would likely make EVs a lot more appealing and accessible to lower-income folks, love it.

lordnacho 2y ago

Makes a lot of sense from my amateur perspective. It takes a bit of time to charge a car, and you might as well use it to buy your groceries. Plus I'm sure WM can get a sensible bulk discount on electricity. Add to that, you can make people use your app and show them targeted adverts. You can get them to buy any bulk goods for pickup when they are charging the car.

Reason077 2y ago
Only trouble is, the cars charge too fast now days! An 800V vehicle like the Ioniq 5 can often be topped up in under 15 minutes, barely enough time to buy a coffee and use the restroom, let alone do any grocery shopping! And some charging networks apply idle fees if you don’t move your car quickly when charging completes. Of course, a car can only charge as fast as the charger, so maybe it makes sense (and certainly saves money) to install slightly slower ones at locations where customers are likely to want to spend longer times.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  Fast charging degrades the battery. Obviously you will choose a slower charger if you know you will be gone for 45 minutes. Walmart is also unlikely to have these charges, since they obviously do not want people to rush through their stores. (Obviously charges after a couple of hours might be there.)
  - Reason077 2y ago
    > "Fast charging degrades the battery." True, but in practical terms this is not worth worrying about for most of us. Saw a recent article where a Korean driver had done over 600,000km (~ 375,000 miles) in his Ioniq 5 on the original battery. He'd only ever used DC fast chargers, typically charging to 100%! His battery did fail around the 600,000km mark, but most vehicles never get anywhere close to that sort of mileage. And apparently it still retained 87% of original capacity up until that point. And despite being far out of warrantly, Hyundai replaced his battery as a goodwill (good publicity!) gesture.
- 2y ago

Havoc 2y ago

Clever combination. Can definitely see that work out well

cbsmith 2y ago

$0.42/kwH is competitive? I think the highest I've ever paid was $0.43/kwH.

fisherjeff 2y ago
FWIW my nearest DCFC, the Electrify America station at my local Walmart, charges $0.56/kWh.
fullstop 2y ago
It depends on where you live and the time of day. I've seen some above $0.60 in Pennsylvania.
- cbsmith 2y ago
  Sure, but in Texas?
  - fullstop 2y ago
    I've also seen them at $0.27 off-peak. It's all over the place.
  - vel0city 2y ago
    Yeah, I've seen around $0.40/kWh often. Looking around in plugshare I see a lot having around $0.50 in North Texas. DCFC is a good bit more expensive than a L2 charge.
    - cbsmith 2y ago
      I think I've been misled about the wonders of energy deregulation in Texas.
      - vel0city 2y ago
        This is rates at DCFC. You're paying for far more than just the price of electricity. Those chargers and dispensers aren't free, they're often empty, they need to recoup costs in a few year horizon. Charging at home it costs me about $0.135/kWh.

999900000999 2y ago

Chaotic good, I could imagine Walmart deciding to sell a miniature EV for around $12,000. Imagine something like a two-seater City car, while I'm dreaming I imagine this type of vehicle completely taking over for most City commuting. Since these would be smaller and slower than normal cars, they would be phenomenally safer.

SoftTalker 2y ago
Very few people have purchased the gasoline-engine equivalent of such cars, so not sure why an EV version would fare a lot better.
- mikeyouse 2y ago
  Especially when they are at Walmart to purchase it with a grocery cart full of groceries that you’d be hard pressed to fit in the E-Smart Car equivalent.
- Reason077 2y ago
  … in the USA. European cities are full of small city cars. Driving (and parking) anything much larger can be impractical on many streets in Europe.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    >… in the USA. European cities are full of small city cars. All of these cars are highway capable. The cars OP describes are extremely niche in Europe.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Especially considering some ebikes are approaching $12k...
dyauspitr 2y ago
A 2 seater is never going to work in America. But electric trucks and vehicles definitely can if charging stations are ubiquitous and there is no range anxiety.

jasonthorsness 2y ago

Now do Costco!

russell_h 2y ago

At least in the Pacific Northwest most Electrify America installations are in Walmart parking lots. These have caused me to spend more time at Walmart the past two years, honestly its a pretty good experience - aside from EA reliability issues, which seem to have improved but still far short of Tesla.

dheera 2y ago
I have a hard time just picking up and plugging that heavy fatass CCS connector. And then I have to try plugging it in 3 times because it waits for the car and the car waits for it and one gives up before the other succeeds.
- fullstop 2y ago
  I'm not a big dude, but I've never struggled with this.
  - darknavi 2y ago
    Used an EVCE charger yesterday that my wife struggled to pick up. The cable its self was just enormous and heavy compared to more modern chargers. Hopefully they go back and retrofit older chargers with newer cables when swapping over to NACS.
darknavi 2y ago
> honestly its a pretty good experience - aside from EA reliability issues, which seem to have improved but still far short of Tesla. Going from the Tesla Supercharger network I can't share this sentiment at all. Virtually every time I charge at an EA station (which is admittedly only a few times a year) there is either random power degradation with no notice or one or many totally dysfunctional stalls. This latest time a few days ago the only open stall was busted because the terminal said to unplug from the last session over an hour ago. The flakiness is compounded by the lack of chargers per station. Superchargers often have 10 or even 20 chargers, EA chargers often have 2 to 4 chargers so a charger going out is much worse.

constantcrying 2y ago

Germany already has a pretty good charging network, yet EV adoption is very slow. This will not change much. Charging infrastructure is only a small part of making EVs appealing, although it is obviously a necessary prerequisite.

manmal 2y ago
EV prices are just way too high. As a father of three, I can decide between a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k. Guess which one I went with. There are some other, cheaper, EV models with 7+ seats (40k+), but they charge so slow and need so much power in winter, you‘d get max 200km out of them and then need to charge 1h. Generally, most EVs you can buy in the EU are just 10-20k more expensive than their ICE counterparts, and incentive programs don’t make up for that difference.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >I can decide between a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k. Guess which one I went with. I assume you are talking about the family van 2 series? And not the sporty 2 door 2 series. (Why didn't you buy a Touran?) You are also comparing used car prices to new car prices which is pretty insane. >EV prices are just way too high. Sure.
  - manmal 2y ago
    The Touran is quite a bit pricier than the 2er Grand Tourer, not sure why you are bringing it up. It’s an expensive car. > You are also comparing used car prices to new car prices which is pretty insane. I don’t care if the car is used or new tbh, I need 7 seats. I get that that’s not a super common situation, and that the comparison is unfair. The 2er was 40k when new. The thing is, there‘s basically no usable used 7 seater EVs in the non-crazy price range.
- thebruce87m 2y ago
  > a used BMW 2 which goes 1k km on a full tank, for €17k, and a Kia EV 7 seater for €70k A used lower end model from one manufacturer vs a new high end model from a different one doesn’t seem like a fair comparison.

daft_pink 2y ago

While I really hope that they do a great job with it, I have no faith in Walmart to offer an effective charging network. Doing everything on the absolute cheap leaves a lot to be desired. They were great when they were expanding and had great stores to lure you away from the competition, but now they operate under maintained not well staffed stores with confusing self checkout and obtrusive surveillance everywhere. It’s just a total race to the bottom at their stores. Hopefully it will encourage better players like Target to follow suit. Anyways, reality is that people buy EVs to charge them at home most of the time. At least thats what I think the reality is.

ojbyrne 2y ago
Or maybe it’s people who can charge at home are more likely to buy EVs.
rchowe 2y ago
The quality of store management seems to affect a lot when it comes to Walmart. I have been to some Walmart stores where I have never seen any unfolded clothing. I have been to some Walmart stores where I have never seen any folded clothing. An organization as large as Walmart has the wherewithal to put together an effective charging network if they decide it is a priority. One of the nice things about being first-party is that they will likely have a preventive maintenance program and emergency maintenance program for the chargers, and some of that can be done by the company electrician. I have a Tesla, and due to various factors (apartment living, other family members with Teslas), I almost exclusively use public chargers. I have some opinions of what amenities I want at a charger (bathroom, cold diet coke), but in general the chargers at gas stations, grocery stores, and Walmarts are the best for me. Restaurants and malls are actually not great amenities because that's often not the mood you are in when you arrive at the charger.

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Seattle3503 2y ago

It feels like this will be big for road trips. Every road trip I've been on, it always felt there was a Walmart just a few miles miles the road.

theshrike79 2y ago

This is what made the charging infrastructure in Finland boom. We have two major grocery chains (a duopoly pretty much), and they started competing for the growing EV customer base by installing chargers at every store of theirs. Now just one of them has over 300 charging stations with about 2000 plugs, 5 years ago they had next to nothing. Turns out it's good for business when families stop to charge for 30 minutes, they drop a bunch of money for other services while they're at it. And I'll rather stop at a store to grab cheap snacks and ready to eat meals vs. paying through the nose for gas station prices. (We actually have some cups, plates, and cutlery in the car just for this)

coopreme 2y ago

This combined with the $20K electric truck looks promising. I just hope something like the blue rhino propane tank for batteries to offer a Battery drop in.

yuliyp 2y ago

I wonder how this will affect their relationship with Electrify America, which has like 30% of its charging locations in Walmart or Sams Club locations.

fnordpiglet 2y ago

I’m surprised they can find the transformers. As I understand it even without any government subsidy transformer production backlog is through 2030. We had a Tesla super charger site near us sit idle for over a year waiting for a transformer. A family member is a lead on transformer manufacturing at hitachi and they can’t build transformer production capacity fast enough to keep up with the rate of change of orders. https://www.utilitydive.com/news/electric-transformer-shortage-nrel-niac/738947/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/electric-transformer-shorta...

tocs3 2y ago

I hope they pair this with solar panel awnings in the parking lots. 30 acre parking lots in Central Texas (and I am sure elsewhere) are a killer. I am not sure why more big box stores (HEB, Home Depot, etc.) have not been a little more active with this sort of thing.