4 ms·

Aktion T4 next? This is a dark dark road. I suspect the US will become like Germany in the next few decades where the paranoia about handing any data over is j

by ohgr 1y ago

Aktion T4 next? This is a dark dark road. I suspect the US will become like Germany in the next few decades where the paranoia about handing any data over is justifiably high. I hope this burns the unethical side of the tech industry to the ground. It deserves it.

Tireings 1y ago
I agree generally but I hope we make as much real anonymous health data available for research. Google is certified and runs the biggest medical database with (I believe without googling this) the biggest hospital operator in the USA. I have a condition which is rare enough that it doesn't get enough funding and data is missing
- ohgr 1y ago
  I would leave that in the hands of professionals though. Which is evidentially not this lot. Not even remotely.
- mschuster91 1y ago
  > Google is certified That doesn't matter _at all_ when the government comes knocking at Google's door - in the best case, they have a subpoena that can at least be appealed afterwards, in the worst case it's DOGE teens backed by a bunch of heavily armed guys in camouflage.
  - ohgr 1y ago
    Indeed. No data is safe or secure in such environments. This has become an issue big enough that the US company I work for is actually removing data from US cloud providers to make it harder to get at. The European divisions have started data sovereignty projects because it's now a principal risk. I'm out of the cloud as well.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
      Ha. My company was advising having a burner phone when traveling to US in a company-wide meeting. There has been something of a shift.
      - ohgr 1y ago
        Yeah similar. My company is US and have banned all travel to US. Said we can do stuff over Teams instead.
- croes 1y ago
  Didn’t they already show that these data can’t really be anonymized if it should still be useful?
ZeroGravitas 1y ago
It was notable that he started with "these people will never pay taxes" when announcing this.
- pwdisswordfishz 1y ago
  *looks at Elon Musk* I suppose he has a point.
  - ben_w 1y ago
    Half of that point occurred to me too. While I have not considered how much taxes Musk actually pays, I do remember this from my school history lessons 25 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Röhm_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Röhm_scandal
- cruzcampo 1y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life#/media/File:EuthanasiePropaganda.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life#/media/F... This poster (published in the NSDAP's Office of Racial Policy's monthly magazine Neues Volk around 1938) urges support for Nazi eugenics to control the public expense of sustaining people with genetic disorders. The poster says: "This person who suffers a hereditary disease has a lifelong cost of 60,000 Reichsmarks to the National Community. Fellow German, that is your money as well."
K0nserv 1y ago
Already the US can serve as a good example when discussing the need for unbreakable cryptography and e2e systems. The current decline nicely illustrates how quickly you can go from "The police have legitimate needs to break encryption to find heinous criminals" to something far more dystopian.
- goku12 1y ago
  No amount of crypto is going to protect you from this mess. Technical safeguards work as long as it is backed by the law and the constitution. But when they are suppressed, the people in power will just find someone smarter than you and bribe, gaslight, bully, blackmail or beat them into helping them compromise such safeguards. And not to mention the fact that they love playing hideous psyops games. This is a social and political problem. You need social and political solutions. Technical solutions are just band-aids.
  - K0nserv 1y ago
    > No amount of crypto is going to protect you from this mess. Technical safeguards work as long as it is backed by the law and the constitution. But when they are suppressed, the people in power will just find someone smarter than you and bribe, gaslight, bully, blackmail or beat them into helping them compromise such safeguards. I don't agree. Having unbreakable crypto is the absence of a tool. My point is that a democratic government can create the tool with good intentions, but you are only one election and a few months of backsliding away from the tool being used for nefarious purposes. You are right that technical solutions are just band-aids, but if you never create the tool it cannot be abused by a new authoritarian government.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
      True, while not panacea, there is a reason why 'going dark' was perceived as an issue.
goku12 1y ago
What makes you think this isn't it? I know that the primary reason for his fixation with autism is to attack vaccines. But have you listened to him talk about autistic people? It's pretty clear that he considers autistic individuals as unproductive (the tax remark) burden who destroys families. It's very clear that he considers them as subhuman. Sounds very close to 'life unworthy of life' argument made by the Nazis. While at it, the Nazis also had a register of disabled people and used the 'economic burden' argument to sell the idea of mass murder. Honestly, I'm struggling to find a difference here. To understand the full scale of the danger, this is how the Holocaust originated - with the murder of a single child in 1939 under their involuntary euthanasia program for disabled children. It gradually made the system comfortable with mass murder as the scope of the program expanded to teens, then adults and to whole races in the end. That's exactly what I see now as well - people tolerating more and more transgressions that would have been unthinkable just a year ago! People sometimes tend to shutdown comparison of any situation with Nazism using the hideous Godwin's law. Apparently it's a sacrilege towards the Holocaust victims to compare their plight with any emerging threats. But there is no guarantee that the horrors of the past won't repeat in the future. In fact, that is one of the reasons we learn history - to recognize the repeating patterns of similar mistakes. And I think the situation is very perilous already. Perhaps I'm paranoid. But remember that people are arbitrarily getting deported to some foreign detention camp and judges are being arrested within 3 months of this regime coming into power. How long before we find ourselves haunted by the dreadful events of the past?
- brightball 1y ago
  Hasn’t RFK Jr spent his entire life trying to find the cause and cure for autism? My life is pretty close to this community and I can verify that all of his comments are 100% accurate. Parents who insist on traveling separately as a safeguard to ensure one of them is able to care for their adult child in the event of an accident, living with the knowledge that both of them passing away will mean the child moves to a group home most likely. Others who cannot handle the demands as caregiver and simply get divorced over it. Some who call CPS because they can’t handle the danger that their child poses to their other children. Some who are flight risks that will literally just take off running (usually right to bodies of water) given the chance, putting parents completely on guard. These are just a few of the issues before getting into “the autism diet” and chronic digestive issues. The fact that somehow a gluten free, casein free diet usually results in significant behavioral improvements leading many people to suspect that what we’re eating environmentally is contributing to the problem. RFK Jr is giving a voice to parents who are scared, confused and fully aware that nobody is listening to them. If you had any idea the number of parents who are afraid to tell you when the symptoms started because they know you don’t want to believe them, it would shock you. If you want to know what most people in the community believe is the root cause, it’s aluminum. I realize that all things associated Trump are destined to get this crazy narrative but RFK Jr has been fighting for these families for at least 20 years. His desire to help people is genuine and not something in question.

by ohgr 1y ago

Tireings 1y ago

I agree generally but I hope we make as much real anonymous health data available for research. Google is certified and runs the biggest medical database with (I believe without googling this) the biggest hospital operator in the USA. I have a condition which is rare enough that it doesn't get enough funding and data is missing

ohgr 1y ago
I would leave that in the hands of professionals though. Which is evidentially not this lot. Not even remotely.
mschuster91 1y ago
> Google is certified That doesn't matter _at all_ when the government comes knocking at Google's door - in the best case, they have a subpoena that can at least be appealed afterwards, in the worst case it's DOGE teens backed by a bunch of heavily armed guys in camouflage.
- ohgr 1y ago
  Indeed. No data is safe or secure in such environments. This has become an issue big enough that the US company I work for is actually removing data from US cloud providers to make it harder to get at. The European divisions have started data sovereignty projects because it's now a principal risk. I'm out of the cloud as well.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
    Ha. My company was advising having a burner phone when traveling to US in a company-wide meeting. There has been something of a shift.
    - ohgr 1y ago
      Yeah similar. My company is US and have banned all travel to US. Said we can do stuff over Teams instead.
croes 1y ago
Didn’t they already show that these data can’t really be anonymized if it should still be useful?

ZeroGravitas 1y ago

It was notable that he started with "these people will never pay taxes" when announcing this.

pwdisswordfishz 1y ago
*looks at Elon Musk* I suppose he has a point.
- ben_w 1y ago
  Half of that point occurred to me too. While I have not considered how much taxes Musk actually pays, I do remember this from my school history lessons 25 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Röhm_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Röhm_scandal
cruzcampo 1y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life#/media/File:EuthanasiePropaganda.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life#/media/F... This poster (published in the NSDAP's Office of Racial Policy's monthly magazine Neues Volk around 1938) urges support for Nazi eugenics to control the public expense of sustaining people with genetic disorders. The poster says: "This person who suffers a hereditary disease has a lifelong cost of 60,000 Reichsmarks to the National Community. Fellow German, that is your money as well."

K0nserv 1y ago

Already the US can serve as a good example when discussing the need for unbreakable cryptography and e2e systems. The current decline nicely illustrates how quickly you can go from "The police have legitimate needs to break encryption to find heinous criminals" to something far more dystopian.

goku12 1y ago
No amount of crypto is going to protect you from this mess. Technical safeguards work as long as it is backed by the law and the constitution. But when they are suppressed, the people in power will just find someone smarter than you and bribe, gaslight, bully, blackmail or beat them into helping them compromise such safeguards. And not to mention the fact that they love playing hideous psyops games. This is a social and political problem. You need social and political solutions. Technical solutions are just band-aids.
- K0nserv 1y ago
  > No amount of crypto is going to protect you from this mess. Technical safeguards work as long as it is backed by the law and the constitution. But when they are suppressed, the people in power will just find someone smarter than you and bribe, gaslight, bully, blackmail or beat them into helping them compromise such safeguards. I don't agree. Having unbreakable crypto is the absence of a tool. My point is that a democratic government can create the tool with good intentions, but you are only one election and a few months of backsliding away from the tool being used for nefarious purposes. You are right that technical solutions are just band-aids, but if you never create the tool it cannot be abused by a new authoritarian government.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
    True, while not panacea, there is a reason why 'going dark' was perceived as an issue.

goku12 1y ago

What makes you think this isn't it? I know that the primary reason for his fixation with autism is to attack vaccines. But have you listened to him talk about autistic people? It's pretty clear that he considers autistic individuals as unproductive (the tax remark) burden who destroys families. It's very clear that he considers them as subhuman. Sounds very close to 'life unworthy of life' argument made by the Nazis. While at it, the Nazis also had a register of disabled people and used the 'economic burden' argument to sell the idea of mass murder. Honestly, I'm struggling to find a difference here. To understand the full scale of the danger, this is how the Holocaust originated - with the murder of a single child in 1939 under their involuntary euthanasia program for disabled children. It gradually made the system comfortable with mass murder as the scope of the program expanded to teens, then adults and to whole races in the end. That's exactly what I see now as well - people tolerating more and more transgressions that would have been unthinkable just a year ago! People sometimes tend to shutdown comparison of any situation with Nazism using the hideous Godwin's law. Apparently it's a sacrilege towards the Holocaust victims to compare their plight with any emerging threats. But there is no guarantee that the horrors of the past won't repeat in the future. In fact, that is one of the reasons we learn history - to recognize the repeating patterns of similar mistakes. And I think the situation is very perilous already. Perhaps I'm paranoid. But remember that people are arbitrarily getting deported to some foreign detention camp and judges are being arrested within 3 months of this regime coming into power. How long before we find ourselves haunted by the dreadful events of the past?

brightball 1y ago
Hasn’t RFK Jr spent his entire life trying to find the cause and cure for autism? My life is pretty close to this community and I can verify that all of his comments are 100% accurate. Parents who insist on traveling separately as a safeguard to ensure one of them is able to care for their adult child in the event of an accident, living with the knowledge that both of them passing away will mean the child moves to a group home most likely. Others who cannot handle the demands as caregiver and simply get divorced over it. Some who call CPS because they can’t handle the danger that their child poses to their other children. Some who are flight risks that will literally just take off running (usually right to bodies of water) given the chance, putting parents completely on guard. These are just a few of the issues before getting into “the autism diet” and chronic digestive issues. The fact that somehow a gluten free, casein free diet usually results in significant behavioral improvements leading many people to suspect that what we’re eating environmentally is contributing to the problem. RFK Jr is giving a voice to parents who are scared, confused and fully aware that nobody is listening to them. If you had any idea the number of parents who are afraid to tell you when the symptoms started because they know you don’t want to believe them, it would shock you. If you want to know what most people in the community believe is the root cause, it’s aluminum. I realize that all things associated Trump are destined to get this crazy narrative but RFK Jr has been fighting for these families for at least 20 years. His desire to help people is genuine and not something in question.