3 ms·

> Why must they be evaluated purely on money terms? Because it's a business providing a consumer good - not a public institution. > Having local independent b

> Why must they be evaluated purely on money terms? Because it's a business providing a consumer good - not a public institution. > Having local independent bookstores enhances the quality of living for an entire community How do they do that? They don't help me because they don't carry books I'm interested in at prices I'm willing to pay. It's serving so few people in the community it can't pay for rent. Public access to books is subsidized already through libraries.

fc417fc802 1y ago
As a counterpoint, I've visited a few smaller towns that used the local government to keep big box retailers out. It's generally an hour or longer drive to the nearest one and as a result main street remains alive and well. Which is to say that the marketplace as a whole exists for the benefit of the public. The entire point of regulation is to remediate issues that competition alone fails to address.
- monkeyelite 1y ago
  This is about online vs retail in a space where the online version has clear advantages for the consumer. We don’t need to prop up an inferior (worse selection, higher price) book industry. > Which is to say that the marketplace as a whole exists for the benefit of the public. That’s a more generous characterization than I would use. Once again, if I’m forced to use worse goods at higher prices thats not a benefit to me.
  - fc417fc802 1y ago
    I wasn't arguing against online retail. I was responding to your first point about businesses versus public institutions. > if I’m forced to use worse goods at higher prices thats not a benefit to me. Not all benefits are first order effects. Presumably you appreciate your local environment not being full of heavy metals despite the fact that remediating toxic waste increases production costs.
    - monkeyelite 1y ago
      > Not all benefits are first order effects. I agree with that. And there are certainly negative second order effects of Amazon. > Presumably you appreciate your local environment not being full of heavy metals I’m just not agreeing that big business = evil and environment destroying and local business = good and sustainable I’ve had good and bad experiences with both and have no evidence that local business is immune from bad incentives.
- kortilla 1y ago
  But why is that better? If you talk to people in towns like this it turns out the locals buy everything they can online and then are generally mad about overpaying to buy from the local small shops. So they travel an hour every couple of months or so to restock everything non-perishable and freezer friendly so they don’t have to get ripped off. This isn’t “smaller towns beating big corporations with the local government”. It’s “business owners in a small town stop competition using local government lobbying”.
  - fc417fc802 1y ago
    It isn't necessarily! But the alternative is hardly pretty either. Surely you've seen the aftermath of a marginal town where the local economy was replaced by one or two large retailers? In both cases you'll be able to find people who complain bitterly about the status quo. The fairness of the local politics will vary but at the end of the day if the majority of the population were truly unhappy with the situation presumably the officials would be voted out.
    - monkeyelite 1y ago
      Are there things I miss about book stores? Yes - the atmosphere and serendipity. Also notice that many know that - and have shifted their business to coffee house, etc providing the atmosphere. And I can still get those experiences when I go to a towns that have a unique book store. I don’t why this was such a key institution that needs to be subsidized. We may have fond memories. If you’re just generally lamenting that good times have changed - I’m with you. But we can’t just mandate that the world stops changing.
    - kortilla 1y ago
      The aftermath is that it kills businesses that were just shops adding cost to basic stuff to retail it. Those businesses suck and aren’t the kind you want anyway. The main streets that people like have coffee shops, boutiques, specialists, restaurants, etc.
- ahepp 1y ago
  Can you name the towns? Which towns do you think we should be using as examples of this economic policy?

fc417fc802 1y ago

As a counterpoint, I've visited a few smaller towns that used the local government to keep big box retailers out. It's generally an hour or longer drive to the nearest one and as a result main street remains alive and well. Which is to say that the marketplace as a whole exists for the benefit of the public. The entire point of regulation is to remediate issues that competition alone fails to address.

monkeyelite 1y ago
This is about online vs retail in a space where the online version has clear advantages for the consumer. We don’t need to prop up an inferior (worse selection, higher price) book industry. > Which is to say that the marketplace as a whole exists for the benefit of the public. That’s a more generous characterization than I would use. Once again, if I’m forced to use worse goods at higher prices thats not a benefit to me.
- fc417fc802 1y ago
  I wasn't arguing against online retail. I was responding to your first point about businesses versus public institutions. > if I’m forced to use worse goods at higher prices thats not a benefit to me. Not all benefits are first order effects. Presumably you appreciate your local environment not being full of heavy metals despite the fact that remediating toxic waste increases production costs.
  - monkeyelite 1y ago
    > Not all benefits are first order effects. I agree with that. And there are certainly negative second order effects of Amazon. > Presumably you appreciate your local environment not being full of heavy metals I’m just not agreeing that big business = evil and environment destroying and local business = good and sustainable I’ve had good and bad experiences with both and have no evidence that local business is immune from bad incentives.
kortilla 1y ago
But why is that better? If you talk to people in towns like this it turns out the locals buy everything they can online and then are generally mad about overpaying to buy from the local small shops. So they travel an hour every couple of months or so to restock everything non-perishable and freezer friendly so they don’t have to get ripped off. This isn’t “smaller towns beating big corporations with the local government”. It’s “business owners in a small town stop competition using local government lobbying”.
- fc417fc802 1y ago
  It isn't necessarily! But the alternative is hardly pretty either. Surely you've seen the aftermath of a marginal town where the local economy was replaced by one or two large retailers? In both cases you'll be able to find people who complain bitterly about the status quo. The fairness of the local politics will vary but at the end of the day if the majority of the population were truly unhappy with the situation presumably the officials would be voted out.
  - monkeyelite 1y ago
    Are there things I miss about book stores? Yes - the atmosphere and serendipity. Also notice that many know that - and have shifted their business to coffee house, etc providing the atmosphere. And I can still get those experiences when I go to a towns that have a unique book store. I don’t why this was such a key institution that needs to be subsidized. We may have fond memories. If you’re just generally lamenting that good times have changed - I’m with you. But we can’t just mandate that the world stops changing.
  - kortilla 1y ago
    The aftermath is that it kills businesses that were just shops adding cost to basic stuff to retail it. Those businesses suck and aren’t the kind you want anyway. The main streets that people like have coffee shops, boutiques, specialists, restaurants, etc.
ahepp 1y ago
Can you name the towns? Which towns do you think we should be using as examples of this economic policy?